.44 twist rate vs bullet weight?

[Redthies]

So I spoke with Bill at Federal, and man, I learned a ton about bullets! Anyhow, the SAMI standard is 1:20. He said any .44 Mag cartridges are going to be tested in a 1:20 barrel.

I am, as I type this, on hold with Henry and it sounds like they are going to put a new barrel on my carbine. This is great, except the Canadian warranty facility just moved shop a couple of weeks ago, and their license has not moved yet, so they are closed until the feds issue an updated facility license. Where’s the damn eye roll emoji?? Found it

I’m hoping I can import my Henry to the US with my ATF form 6, and then Henry will re-barrel it at Rice Lake, but now need to talk to Henrys import/export guy, as he is unsure if they are able to return the repaired gun to my Washington address…

[Shakey Jake]

I don't have a .44 mag Henry, Mine is a Marlin. I will say you've got that Ruger American shooting fine!
Jake

Thanks Jake. The credit goes to Ruger on that one. The American line (I have a few) are fantastic value. Every one I’ve ever shot is very accurate right out of the box. They are honestly better than my M77 Mk2s that I used to have.

Is your Marlin a 336 or 1894? If I can’t find copper that I can shoot out of this 1:38 or Henry won’t put a 1:20 twist on it for free, I likely will part ways with this one. It’s not terrible with the heavier bullets, but if a rifle is staying in my safe, it needs to earn its keep, and that means I need to be happy with it shooting my chosen hunting rounds well.

Mine is an 1884. "JM" branded.
Jake

[Redthies]

As an interesting side point, I asked Deana “what the heck were you thinking, putting a 1:38 barrel on these things, if the SAMI standard is 1:20”?? She said “I have no idea, but can assure the engineers who designed it are no longer with us”!

[DsGrouse]

I went down this rabbit hole with my 45lc big boy x. The thread conversation is somewhere on here. Short of it is, stable is stable. That's how the industry looks at it. The long story is, when you put certain bullet weights, twist rates, and velocities together, you can find the point where, stable isn't stable enough.

Aside from 1 in 5 twists for things like 8.6 and 300 blackout, which require full copper/brass bullets, you should be able to find a bullet weight/length combo that will stabilize the bullets at a distance.

Now, if it were me, I'd want that 1:20 barrel. But given the facts you mentioned about Henry's repair facility in Canada, I might take the time to do a bit of load workup.

in my 45 colt, I've found the 300grn JHP's to be quite good. My crowning jewel is a 315grn gas-checked flat point. Its a thumper. I've got great subsonic loads and loads up into the 1400fps range with it.

[Redthies]

I think the 1:20 is going to happen either way, but not in time for this season. I’ll just fall back on my trusty Marlin 336BL to get my deer. .30-30 and the 2-7 scope give me a better range anyway. I just really want to get an animal with the Henry. There’s always next season I guess. If I wait for the warranty guy to re-open up here, I’m sure there will be a large backlog, so I’ll miss this season for sure. If I get the ok from Henry to ship via my Washington state address, I’m sure it will still be too late for this season, but I’ll be happier to have the factory handle the swap. I’m emailing Tom who handles the import/export stuff on Monday.

[North Country Gal]

That 1 in 38 twist for rifles in 44 cal cartridges like the 44-40 dates back to the black powder days. One explanation I read is that the slow twist cut down on fouling and leading when shooting a rifle magazine full of those black powder loads. When Marlin started running 44 magnums in their rifles back in the 60s/70s, they most likely kept that twist out of tradition and everyone else followed their lead. That seems the most likely explanation to me. If so, there was no performance reason for Marlin to use a 1 in 38 with smokeless 44 mag loads.

[fortyshooter]

Been there before with an older 44 Mag Henry! Slug your bore to see what you have as Henry was all over the place on 44 Mag bore size. Mine checked out at .432 and would shoot key holes along with a shotgun like pattern when shooting mild cast bullet loads which I shoot. I had the slow twist also. Sold it and bought a Uberti 1873 Carbine in .44 Mag which had the 1:20 and .429 bore....one sweet shooter!

[Redthies]

I’m bumping this back up to ask some follow up questions. Would heavier weight projectiles be any more likely to work in the slow twist barrel? With all the discussions about crappy .44 barrels from Henry in the newer guns, I thought I should explore my options before sending this thing away for the new barrel. My other option is flog it and buy a .44 Marlin…

[Redthies]

And for giggles I messaged the guy I bought my .44 Henry from as he has a JM Marlin .44 for sale to see if he wants to trade

[Redthies]

I just did a bit more research, and the .44 Marlin is a 1:38 twist as well in that era, and also has issues with oversized chamber throats. Guess I’ll stick to the devil I know for now, and hope there is a different .44 round I can find it likes.

[BigAl52]

Get some 2400 or H-110 and buy some Hornady 240Gr XTP bullets load those up and try them. If it wont shoot those better Id ask for my money back.

[Vaquero]

With all the talk of late about the poor accuracy of the 44's, I pulled my '07 made BBB out.
At 50yds and open sights, as mine was made before they d&t'd the receivers. Now this rifle was sent back in Feb. 2020 because the mag tube was tearing away from the barrel.
A lot of changes between '07 and '20, and the mag tube is attached differently so they changed the barrel also. What a surprise when I got it back.
Any way today I had these three left over hand loads and these factory loads that a friend gave me the other day. They are Fed., and assume they are 240 gr. They were jhp's fer sure.

20240227_113640.jpg

I was leaning on a bag, not bad for old eyes and factory sights.

RP

[Redthies]

I’d take that bottom group any day given the buckhorn set up. You are in the same boat as me. Mine is a 2015 manufactured BBSC so also has the old style mag tube. That’s why they are replacing both that and barrel together.

My barrel etc arrived at the warranty depot on Monday, and I emailed the depot guy and Tom Kotz this morning for confirmation that everything is in good shape so I can ship the carbine off. The guy who does Henry’s warranty work gets a mix of 4-5 star and mostly 1 star reviews, so this is going to be an interesting experiment. If it goes horribly, I’m going to hold Henry responsible and maybe try to get current cash value for the carbine and buy a new Marlin 1894 instead…

[Redthies]

It’s at the depot now. Fingers crossed…

[Redthies]

Homeward bound! Should be here on the 5th. Henry sent me a few goodies to cover my shipping cost to the depot, and ship back on their dime. I really hope it shoots my chosen ammo better than the slow twist did. Tom Kotz at Henry has been super helpful and I’d hate for it to be for nothing if it doesn’t shoot.

[Hatchdog]

Wow, that’s a nice haul of gear. Hope your new barrel is as awesome!

[Vaquero]

Wishing you all the luck friend.

RP

[Redthies]

Wow, that’s a nice haul of gear. Hope your new barrel is as awesome!

I feel like I could have picked more stuff, but unfortunately I think most of Henrys stuff is kind of goofy. Elmer would use a lot of it to hunt wabbits. The cuff fits either .30-30 or .44 so it might end up on my Marlin… Would I burn up for putting a Henry leather on a Marlin?

[Redthies]

It’s back! And the 1-6x Vortex is mounted and laser bore sighted. Got a new Nikon spotter, so all that’s left is time to get to the range!

[BigAl52]

As Im sure you are we all are awaiting those results