.44 twist rate vs bullet weight?

[Redthies]

I know there is an older thread on this, but searching does not bring it up for me.

My BBSC .44 Mag is an early version (02/17/2015) so I’m presuming it’s the 1:38 twist. I’m trying/hoping to be able to shoot 225 grain bullets in either the FTX LeverEvolution or preferably a copper monolith for deer hunting. I went through an entire box (EXPENSIVE!) of Barnes TTSX yesterday after confirming my zero at 50 yards with hand loaded 240 grain cast hp bullets. I could not get ANY consistency out of it. I’m very frustrated as it was hard to find the copper ammunition I prefer, and they aren’t cheap.

My question is this: Is the 1:38 or 1:20 of the newer Henrys better suited to lighter bullets? If it’s the 1:38, I’ll try another brand of copper, but if it’s 1:20, I’ll look at having Henry re-barrel this thing. I really was looking forward to hunting with it this season, but I guess the old faithful Marlin will be coming out of the safe at this point.

Target below was as good as I could get with the Barnes. Shot at 60 yards off a bipod on bench. (Small holes are Ruger American .22LR shooting Eley Tenex in top, and Eley HP bottom, both rapid fired).

[BigAl52]

Wow thats terrible for the Barnes TTSX. I use those in my 338 Win Mag Redthies and they shoot almost as good as my handloads. I was really impressed with those when I shot them. It wasnt just one box either I shot 2 different bullet weights of the Barnes in my rifle. I think Id be making a phone call to Henry

[BigAl52]

Oh forgot to add also that the FTX bullets shot very well also when I tested them in my 45-70.

[Redthies]

Yeah, I use the TTSX in my .30-30 Marlin, and my Ruger 7-08 and they have been fantastic in both. I shot my 7-08 with 139 grain Hornady Superformance copper yesterday and they are also fantastic. I wanted a heavier bullet for elk/moose and the TTSX in 7-08 is only 120 grain.

I found some .44 Mag Federal Premium 225 gr with Barnes “Expander” copper, but I’m not sure I want to pay the $67 per box plus shipping ($100 for dangerous goods) in order to have the same experience I had with the VOR-TX. No, actually I AM sure I don’t want to do that. If I knew they would work, I’d pay the money as $1.70 per pound for organic venison (possibly X 10) is a fair price to pay.

[Redthies]

Oh forgot to add also that the FTX bullets shot very well also when I tested them in my 45-70.

I’ve got 4 boxes of the FTX but have read less than stellar reviews of its hunting performance. I found an excellent article on .44 Mag ballistics I’ll link below. Tons of good info, and very well written.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowle ... agnum.html

[Shakey Jake]

I don't have a .44 mag Henry, Mine is a Marlin. I will say you've got that Ruger American shooting fine!
Jake

[North Country Gal]

Found this in the Barnes catalog

"Requires a 1:20” barrel twist rate or faster: VOR-TX handgun 44 Remington mag 225 grain XPB"

Have heard this before from other users, too, on the Barnes copper 225s.

[Redthies]

Found this in the Barnes catalog

"Requires a 1:20” barrel twist rate or faster: VOR-TX handgun 44 Remington mag 225 grain XPB"

Have heard this before from other users, too, on the Barnes copper 225s.

Perfect… I should have read the fine print!

[Redthies]

Oh look… It says 1:20 or faster right on the box (in tiny print of course). At least I know it’s not just me!

I wonder what the odds are other 225s require same twist? I’ll see what Federal says.

[Redthies]

I don't have a .44 mag Henry, Mine is a Marlin. I will say you've got that Ruger American shooting fine!
Jake

Thanks Jake. The credit goes to Ruger on that one. The American line (I have a few) are fantastic value. Every one I’ve ever shot is very accurate right out of the box. They are honestly better than my M77 Mk2s that I used to have.

Is your Marlin a 336 or 1894? If I can’t find copper that I can shoot out of this 1:38 or Henry won’t put a 1:20 twist on it for free, I likely will part ways with this one. It’s not terrible with the heavier bullets, but if a rifle is staying in my safe, it needs to earn its keep, and that means I need to be happy with it shooting my chosen hunting rounds well.

[Redthies]

So I spoke with Bill at Federal, and man, I learned a ton about bullets! Anyhow, the SAMI standard is 1:20. He said any .44 Mag cartridges are going to be tested in a 1:20 barrel.

I am, as I type this, on hold with Henry and it sounds like they are going to put a new barrel on my carbine. This is great, except the Canadian warranty facility just moved shop a couple of weeks ago, and their license has not moved yet, so they are closed until the feds issue an updated facility license. Where’s the damn eye roll emoji?? Found it

I’m hoping I can import my Henry to the US with my ATF form 6, and then Henry will re-barrel it at Rice Lake, but now need to talk to Henrys import/export guy, as he is unsure if they are able to return the repaired gun to my Washington address…

[Shakey Jake]

I don't have a .44 mag Henry, Mine is a Marlin. I will say you've got that Ruger American shooting fine!
Jake

Thanks Jake. The credit goes to Ruger on that one. The American line (I have a few) are fantastic value. Every one I’ve ever shot is very accurate right out of the box. They are honestly better than my M77 Mk2s that I used to have.

Is your Marlin a 336 or 1894? If I can’t find copper that I can shoot out of this 1:38 or Henry won’t put a 1:20 twist on it for free, I likely will part ways with this one. It’s not terrible with the heavier bullets, but if a rifle is staying in my safe, it needs to earn its keep, and that means I need to be happy with it shooting my chosen hunting rounds well.

Mine is an 1884. "JM" branded.
Jake

[Redthies]

As an interesting side point, I asked Deana “what the heck were you thinking, putting a 1:38 barrel on these things, if the SAMI standard is 1:20”?? She said “I have no idea, but can assure the engineers who designed it are no longer with us”!

[DsGrouse]

I went down this rabbit hole with my 45lc big boy x. The thread conversation is somewhere on here. Short of it is, stable is stable. That's how the industry looks at it. The long story is, when you put certain bullet weights, twist rates, and velocities together, you can find the point where, stable isn't stable enough.

Aside from 1 in 5 twists for things like 8.6 and 300 blackout, which require full copper/brass bullets, you should be able to find a bullet weight/length combo that will stabilize the bullets at a distance.

Now, if it were me, I'd want that 1:20 barrel. But given the facts you mentioned about Henry's repair facility in Canada, I might take the time to do a bit of load workup.

in my 45 colt, I've found the 300grn JHP's to be quite good. My crowning jewel is a 315grn gas-checked flat point. Its a thumper. I've got great subsonic loads and loads up into the 1400fps range with it.

[Redthies]

I think the 1:20 is going to happen either way, but not in time for this season. I’ll just fall back on my trusty Marlin 336BL to get my deer. .30-30 and the 2-7 scope give me a better range anyway. I just really want to get an animal with the Henry. There’s always next season I guess. If I wait for the warranty guy to re-open up here, I’m sure there will be a large backlog, so I’ll miss this season for sure. If I get the ok from Henry to ship via my Washington state address, I’m sure it will still be too late for this season, but I’ll be happier to have the factory handle the swap. I’m emailing Tom who handles the import/export stuff on Monday.

[North Country Gal]

That 1 in 38 twist for rifles in 44 cal cartridges like the 44-40 dates back to the black powder days. One explanation I read is that the slow twist cut down on fouling and leading when shooting a rifle magazine full of those black powder loads. When Marlin started running 44 magnums in their rifles back in the 60s/70s, they most likely kept that twist out of tradition and everyone else followed their lead. That seems the most likely explanation to me. If so, there was no performance reason for Marlin to use a 1 in 38 with smokeless 44 mag loads.

[fortyshooter]

Been there before with an older 44 Mag Henry! Slug your bore to see what you have as Henry was all over the place on 44 Mag bore size. Mine checked out at .432 and would shoot key holes along with a shotgun like pattern when shooting mild cast bullet loads which I shoot. I had the slow twist also. Sold it and bought a Uberti 1873 Carbine in .44 Mag which had the 1:20 and .429 bore....one sweet shooter!

[Redthies]

I’m bumping this back up to ask some follow up questions. Would heavier weight projectiles be any more likely to work in the slow twist barrel? With all the discussions about crappy .44 barrels from Henry in the newer guns, I thought I should explore my options before sending this thing away for the new barrel. My other option is flog it and buy a .44 Marlin…

[Redthies]

And for giggles I messaged the guy I bought my .44 Henry from as he has a JM Marlin .44 for sale to see if he wants to trade

[Redthies]

I just did a bit more research, and the .44 Marlin is a 1:38 twist as well in that era, and also has issues with oversized chamber throats. Guess I’ll stick to the devil I know for now, and hope there is a different .44 round I can find it likes.