Water heaters

[markiver54]

I saw a post on " Our morning coffee and weather" thread that is prompting my question.

I'm close to, or maybe even overdue for a new water heater. Mine actually sits outside in an insulated enclosure between my house and my shop. It's a rather narrow walkway between the two. Because of that, I'm thinking of going tankless and mounting it on my brick wall to open that walkway a bit.
Does anybody have one or have any experience or suggestions/recommendations? I think I can probably get away with it mounted outside because of our relatively mild winters here in Western North Carolina. We usually only get one or two really cold snaps per winter and they don't las but a couple days.

Mark

[Ernie]

Tankless of course does not keep anything hot and it uses small tubing to heat water quickly "on demand". I am thinking those things would be very bad for a unit outside if you do get freezing weather. Don't have one, just thinking about what little I think I know about them.

[Vaquero]

Mark, they are generally installed in the garage, and vented through the exterior wall.
That is how I see them in the new construction homes we work on.

RP

[markiver54]

Mark, they are generally installed in the garage, and vented through the exterior wall.
That is how I see them in the new construction homes we work on.

RP

I hear Ya Randy. I was just hoping to not have to put it in my small shop. You might remember how small the shop is.

[markiver54]

Tankless of course does not keep anything hot and it uses small tubing to heat water quickly "on demand". I am thinking those things would be very bad for a unit outside if you do get freezing weather. Don't have one, just thinking about what little I think I know about them.

Input is appreciated Ernie.

[daytime dave]

Mark, we have a tankless at camp. It's pretty good once you get the hot water. It is in the basement with the rest of the water utility items.
I' have no idea about keeping it outside, except as previously mentioned, it could freeze. They are pretty small sized.

[markiver54]

Mark, we have a tankless at camp. It's pretty good once you get the hot water. It is in the basement with the rest of the water utility items.
I' have no idea about keeping it outside, except as previously mentioned, it could freeze. They are pretty small sized.

I guess I need to try and find an honest local installer who is not trying to sell me a unit and hopefully get an informed answer.
It seems I heard they could be mounted outside, however, it might be a" do it at your own risk" situation. Or maybe just not here.
The climate here might be borderline for this application.

[markiver54]

A local plumbing company is coming by this afternoon to give me a free quote on installation and talk about my outdoor options. I was told that they do install them outside around here...we'll see how convincing they are.

[Ernie]

I have never lived in an area that did not have a harsh winter so my first response is to be negative about an outdoor water heater or exposed water system in the winter. So disregard me and listen to your local expert. I am curious about information you get on the tankless systems.

[markiver54]

I have never lived in an area that did not have a harsh winter so my first response is to be negative about an outdoor water heater or exposed water system in the winter. So disregard me and listen to your local expert. I am curious about information you get on the tankless systems.

Don't have the quote yet, maybe tomorrow. They said they have installed them in this area and it would be ok. It would have some sort of heat box on the bottom. Forgot what he called it. Anyway, he said he would give me a detailed estimate probably by tomorrow eve. Will post what I find out.
The brand he wants to install is "Navien"...we'll see.
BTW, I take your opinion seriously, thank you. I DO remain skeptical.

[Hatchdog]

I’m interested in your results too. Around here more and more homes are being built without basements (cheaper) and the furnace and water heaters are put in the garages. Of course this requires the garage to be insulated and sheet rocked which is a good thing. Something I wish I had done when the house was built. Not sure if folks with the garage located systems are heating the garage or not. But with out winter temps I’m thinking it would be needed.

[Sir Henry]

I’m interested in your results too. Around here more and more homes are being built without basements (cheaper) and the furnace and water heaters are put in the garages. Of course this requires the garage to be insulated and sheet rocked which is a good thing. Something I wish I had done when the house was built. Not sure if folks with the garage located systems are heating the garage or not. But with out winter temps I’m thinking it would be needed.

My garage in Woodinville, WA wasn’t insulated but it doesn’t get that cold there or if it did it didn’t last long. Here in Wisconsin my on demand water is in a small closet in the house along with the furnace. It’s usually in the high 70’s in that room.

[markiver54]

Got my quote this morning.
I asked the representative if it would be ok if I purchased the unit myself that they would still do the install. He said yes and that it would save me significant money. I might add that he said these units are pretty common around here. The brand he quoted is " Rinnai ". Maybe the "Navien" he mentioned first is not available with the heat box for protection. Difference being the " Rinnai " has a ten year warranty as opposed to the " Navien " which has a twelve year warranty.

If I'm understanding his quote correctly, which I will call and confirm, the cost of them providing the unit and installation total with tax would be $5433.79. Total. With customer supplied unit, $2725.43.
Ten year heat exchanger warranty, six year on parts and two years on labor.

To compare, I'm going to get a second and possibly a third estimate.

Edit: I don't think the customer supplied unit cost includes labor.

[markiver54]

This shows why I want to do this. The new tankless would be mounted on the brick wall and open up my passage.

20231127_151306.jpg (4.22 MiB) Viewed 6016 times

[markiver54]

I've set up another estimate for tomorrow and a third for next Wednesday. After the third, I will make a decision.

[markiver54]

I was very impressed with the second technician/company that came yesterday. He was here for about 3+1/2 hours. He was very knowledgeable and answered all my questions without pause.
I have now decided to mount the "Navien" 11.4 gpm unit in the closet of my guest room and I'm only going to lose about 1/4 closet capacity. I was truly impressed with this NAVY veteran/Seabee;... Company name "Holy Water Plumbing" and I'm looking forward to the end result.
FYI, it turned out to be just over $6k. Not cheap, however, I feel confident I've made the right decision based on our discussions.

Will report after the job is finished for anyone who it might interest.

[RetiredSeabee]

Sounds like a good plan. Those Seabees are pretty good workers.

[Ernie]

Sounds like a good option. Gas or electric? How much heat will this produce and do you have to have a vent in your closet?

[markiver54]

Sounds like a good option. Gas or electric? How much heat will this produce and do you have to have a vent in your closet?

The unit will be gas. I think the heat it will produce is up around 140 degrees. (not sere about that though). the unit is a "Navien model 240A. It is rated at about 200,000 btu. It will be vented through the exterior brick wall to the outside.

[markiver54]

20231206_193233.jpg (2.73 MiB) Viewed 5857 times

Installed Navien 240A tankless water heater.
It will take some time to realize the pros and cons.
At least I got that BOX! out of my breezeway!