Magazine Tube Replacement

[Firefly]

You have a point and whilst I agree a simple replacement is a better option I am pretty sure that the tube is not strong enough, the increasing reports of failure are concerning and I don't want to have to replace the tube again in the future. Also I did say it was a suggestion not that I was going to do it.

[Mistered]

the increasing reports of failure are concerning and I don't want to have to replace the tube again in the future.

I recall reading the cracking tube issue was becoming a thing of the past due to a different tube steel (or hardness) being used with new rifles as well as replacements.

Someone please jump in and clarify this !

[JEBar]

speaking as one who has a Henry 44 Mag, I still don't look on it as being a systemic problem .... ours failed after the rifle has fired tens of thousands of rounds .... I suspect that it has fired many, many more rounds than most .... I haven't paid much attention to the replacement tube but from what little I've looked at it, I don't see any difference from the OEM .... a while back it was determined that Henry offers the 44 Mag in more different lines of its rifles than any other caliber .... it seems to me that with that being the case, if there was something fundamentally wrong with the tube's design or construction, we would hear of a great many more failures

[Mags]

.
Your gunsmith is right about the weakness. The weakness with the end of the mag tube is that the tube is a piece of curled steel and has an open seam that faces the barrel. Hence the little piece of steel between the notch and seem is weak. 'IF' you choose to pursue laser welding have about an inch or so of the seem at the end of the tube also welded.
(You can see the open seem by looking through the mag tube loading port.)

I have spoken with both Henry and the UK importer and discussions are ongoing so at the moment the gun is with my gunsmith who is in conversation with the importer and the importer is in conversation with Henry, I have no idea what the result will be.

On the same topic my gunsmith agrees that the tube is very thin and suggests that laser welding the crack and then fitting a sleeve over the end of the tube reaching the front support may be a better solution than replacement as it would strengthen the area that has cracked on not only my gun but has been reported to have happened to a number of this sites members. He thinks the tube is too weak in this area.

[Mags]

.
I think Henry likely sees this type of failure as at least becoming systemic. The new model case hardened .44 and the new side loaders use a machined steel end on the mag tube. Also the carbine models.

357 mag tube end.jpg

speaking as one who has a Henry 44 Mag, I still don't look on it as being a systemic problem .... ours failed after the rifle has fired tens of thousands of rounds .... I suspect that it has fired many, many more rounds than most .... I haven't paid much attention to the replacement tube but from what little I've looked at it, I don't see any difference from the OEM .... a while back it was determined that Henry offers the 44 Mag in more different lines of its rifles than any other caliber .... it seems to me that with that being the case, if there was something fundamentally wrong with the tube's design or construction, we would hear of a great many more failures

[Firefly]

I agree with Mags that the problem is that instead of a proper drawn steel tube the magazine is a cheap piece of rolled and spot welded steel and it is obvious that if you cut a latch slot opposite the open back of the tube it will eventually fail. If I go the laser weld route you can be sure that open seam will also get welded, I am interested to see if the replacement tube is the same or is actually an improved version

[JEBar]

no clue what they are doing right now .... below is a picture of the replacement they installed in our 44 back in January .... the tube shown in Mags post looks like the one on our 45-70

[Firefly]

Exactly the same as is on my .44 BBB so it looks like Henry have not changed anything despite the failures.

[Jimi]

Same problem on a new 45.70—didn’t catch it at the dealer. Got it home and couldn’t remove the inner mag follower without using pliers. The new follower Henry sent didn’t solve the problem. I put bluing on the follower, and saw where the outer tube was binding the follower near the receiver. I took it back to the dealer. Apparently the test fire caused the outer tube to distort, but wasn’t checked and sent on out.

[JEBar]

I took it back to the dealer. Apparently the test fire caused the outer tube to distort, but wasn’t checked and sent on out.

do you plan to return it to Henry for repair .. .. if so, I have no doubt that they will make it right .... please take a look at our How Many ? thread (link below) and add your Henry rifles to our community's total


http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... 494#p99494

[Mistered]

OP mentioned in a post on a different thread about this subject he had returned the rifle and bought a BLR.

[JEBar]

thanks, I must have missed that post

[Mistered]

The new model case hardened .44 and the new side loaders use a machined steel end on the mag tube. Also the carbine models.

I did not realize Henry had changed the forward end of the load tube by modifying the forward tube support to become the latch retention system for the end of the inner load tube.
This is a definite improvement as it will eliminate the cracking of the outer load tube by removing the 'stress' that has caused the cracking - which is still a mystery to me.
I have thought about it and I am THINKING when the tube is full and the first shot is fired it somehow transfers impact through all the rounds and hammers the inner tube forward, which eventually cracks the outer tube due to the lock pin pushing against it.
I can't really see any other way for this to happen and looking at the new system I see no reason an existing rifle could not be converted. It would require a new tube support, a new (or shortened) inner tube and most likely a shorter inner tube.

[Jimi]

I don’t think the magazine is fully loaded during test fire—I may be wrong on that. What I found on the one I purchased was the outer mag tube was distorted where it meets the receiver. I’m pretty sure this would be caused by blow-by, causing the already weak area to deform.

[Firefly]

Ok here is the update after many emails and calls the UK importer has agreed that there is no damage other than the crack in the tube and Henry has agreed the free replacement. Due to the difficulties and cost of posting firearms in UK the importer will post the tube to my gunsmith who will replace the tube and return the gun to at the range where we both shoot, I will pay him for the work and we are all happy. The cost to me is smaller than the shipping costs if I were to return the gun to the importer.

[Yornoc3]

Mistered, I think you're on to something. When the gun fires, the recoil is a push to the rear, but the cartridges want to remain in place, so their inertia effectively "taps" forward on the tube. Not a lot different than a rifle scope moving forward in its rings on a heavy recoiling rifle. Over time, I can see how there could be some effect, especially with relatively heavy cartridges, like .44 Remington or, especially, .45-70.

[Mistered]

I don’t think the magazine is fully loaded during test fire—

Probably not but I was referring to the tubes that crack much later after the owner has owned the rifle for some time.
In this case I am sure the mag tube had been loaded full many times.

[Shawn1974]

Mistered, I think you're on to something. When the gun fires, the recoil is a push to the rear, but the cartridges want to remain in place, so their inertia effectively "taps" forward on the tube. Not a lot different than a rifle scope moving forward in its rings on a heavy recoiling rifle. Over time, I can see how there could be some effect, especially with relatively heavy cartridges, like .44 Remington or, especially, .45-70.

That is exactly what happens...it becomes a slide hammer! I had made a ring years ago that slid over the end of the tube on my H010, just to strengthen it, but it only slowed down the deformation. Eventually it became hard to turn the tube to release it, so I sent it in for the updated parts.

[ESquared]

Ok here is the update after many emails and calls the UK importer has agreed that there is no damage other than the crack in the tube and Henry has agreed the free replacement. Due to the difficulties and cost of posting firearms in UK the importer will post the tube to my gunsmith who will replace the tube and return the gun to at the range where we both shoot, I will pay him for the work and we are all happy. The cost to me is smaller than the shipping costs if I were to return the gun to the importer.

So glad to hear you got a suitable outcome to your issue! Please keep us posted on how the repair goes and what you think when you get it back!

[Firefly]

Update.
My gunsmith has replaced the tube and returned the gun to me, the cost to me was just for his time spent on the work. He also slightly adjusted the inner tube lock to eliminate movement due to recoil that puts strain on the latch cutout slot. He is also looking at the possibility that the broken tube could be repaired.