Saga of a S&W 41

[MR.B]

After E squared nudge, going to start this saga of my 41. It's not pretty, and S&W could have handled things differently.

Anyway here is a short recap.

Very interesting!(Regarding another 41 thread) Yes, the saga is still continuing on the 41. But alas, I do believe we have a solution in the wings. A little recap,it's a 1986 model bought it used in probably 2017. Tested 30 different brands/types of ammo from cheap to expensive, and it jammed all the time. Normally 2 or 3 times a mag. Sent it to the Performance Center (Smith's repair center) along with a letter explaining what was going on, what brands of ammo was used and what kind of jams it was producing. About every 3 weeks, I call for an update, most of the time I spoke with Mike, and got the same response. The 'smith has it and currently working on a written estimate that will be mailed to you. And after 6 months when I called, Mike answered and he did some research and they lost the gun. The next day get an email saying it was in the mail. Knew it wasn't fixed, but was hoping. And I was right. On the paperwork it said repaired. (Said to myself, wow what a wordsmith, and I thought I was bad) It wasn't, still the same thing happening. So tried 20 different / types of ammo, now I have tried over 50 type/brands of ammo, all of them jammed. I did send pic and the most common jamb was a double feed w/ a stovepipe. (Live round in the chamber, another round trying to get into the chamber, and the empty case on top of the 2nd rd. Also sent the list of ammo used and how many jams per mag.

So sent it back to PC ......again, and after another 6 month wait, after talking to Keli,I get the gun back with a bill of $150. Now they have the 41 for over a year, and still not fixed. Found out the life time warranty don't count with guns made before 1993. They replaced the hammer/sear/mainspring which was broke. Took it to 2 rimfire challenges, (2 days of comp, sat and sun). The Sat. rimfire, out of 15 mags, there were 8 jams. (same as above), so switched to my backup gun (Browning Buckmark), Buckmark ran fine. On Sunday, had 1 jam out of 4 mags. Still not working right.

Now the possible solution. Was talking to a friend about it, and a gunsmith I know was in ear shot, and he said try mini-mags (which I haven't tried). Didn't have any with me, so the next range trip, brought 48 rds, thought it was a full box, loaded up 4 mags, and just shot dirt, fairly rapidly, not 1 jam. Ran like it was suppose to. This coming week, if I can get out, will run a couple hundred rd. test for accuracy, and if it's running like it did the other day, might have to close this saga.

A side note, the dealer who I bought it from, tried (and still trying) to get me a new 41, and pretty much an even swap, told me that he will swap out his personal 41 that is 30 yrs old with mine, until he can find a new one for me. Now how is that for customer service.

When this 41 works, it's by far my favorite handgun....well just about. Have 2 more that I REALLY like. My Dan Wesson Pointman 9 and the bowling pin .45 that my Brother made me.

Your opinions/suggestions are welcome.

Here are some pics.

Pic 1 - The most common jam.
Pic 2 - the hammer/sear/main spring
Pic 3 - This one here, the brass flipped backwards.
Pic 4 - Better view of the break

[Ernie]

Sounds like a great dealer and a lousy service rep. If the mini-mags run, does that mean the spring was too strong for the other ammunition? I do not have a model 41 but have done some reading on them and thought I might like one. Maybe not.

[Ernie]

By the way, Welcome to the forum.

[MR.B]

Sounds like a great dealer and a lousy service rep. If the mini-mags run, does that mean the spring was too strong for the other ammunition? I do not have a model 41 but have done some reading on them and thought I might like one. Maybe not.

I changed the recoil spring from the factory (since I thought that was causing the problem), trying every spring down to 6#. None of them worked properly.

[Ernie]

I figured if it was that simple you would have figured it out, but I had to ask..

[ESquared]

The mini-mag thing is a real head-scratcher, that's for sure. Between your expertise and whatever S&W did (or didn't do, as it turns out), it makes the mini-mag "solution" even more puzzling.
Let's see what some of the other experts around here have to say. I'm not one of 'em.

[BigAl52]

Im no 41 eggspurt but NCG might have some insight here as I know she has one. I gotta agree with the other comments poor customer service and Smith should make it right. If it was me Id be on them like a cheap suit to get it fixed. The 41 is a pricey 22.

[Mags]

limp wrist will shooting?

[North Country Gal]

Disappointed to hear how Smith has handled this. They dropped the ball on this one. No doubt about it.

As for the Mini mags or any other HV load to get the gun to function, properly, that is not something I would accept. Smith designs these guns around SV ammo and they have made statements to that effect in the past, so that's what I would hold them to, not to mention you will never realize the full accuracy potential of a Model 41 with HV ammo.

As for me troubleshooting on someone else's gun as I sit here at my computer, not going to happen. On the other hand, I will offer some things to try if you haven't already done so. For one, try a different barrel. That is easily done, since the 41 is designed with that easy barrel change feature. For another, try different grips, as in a full blown competition target grip that better locks your hand into the grip. Been thinking of doing just that on mine. For still another have someone else shoot your gun to see if the gun maintains its faulty functioning. In other words, take as many variables out of the equation as you can. Best of luck. Hope you get it solved. I know how frustrating this can be. Been there.

[MR.B]

Disappointed to hear how Smith has handled this. They dropped the ball on this one. No doubt about it.

As for the Mini mags or any other HV load to get the gun to function, properly, that is not something I would accept. Smith designs these guns around SV ammo and they have made statements to that effect in the past, so that's what I would hold them to, not to mention you will never realize the full accuracy potential of a Model 41 with HV ammo.

As for me troubleshooting on someone else's gun as I sit here at my computer, not going to happen. On the other hand, I will offer some things to try if you haven't already done so. For one, try a different barrel. That is easily done, since the 41 is designed with that easy barrel change feature. For another, try different grips, as in a full blown competition target grip that better locks your hand into the grip. Been thinking of doing just that on mine. For still another have someone else shoot your gun to see if the gun maintains its faulty functioning. In other words, take as many variables out of the equation as you can. Best of luck. Hope you get it solved. I know how frustrating this can be. Been there.

Thank you for your input NCG. Actually was looking forward to it. The list of things you suggested are very good.

There are about 5 model 41's that people own in our club, all of them have the same problem to some degree. Mine and another guys are the worst, and his just started a couple years ago. He got his to semi-run holding it limp wristed. But what changed from his 41 that ran perfect to a jam-o-matic like mine, he doesn't know, but something had to have changed that's for sure. I didn't think about changing barrels, but did think about changing slides. I've been trying to find some target grips for the 41 for a long time. The only ones I can find are the super expensive one that have to be molded to your hand.

There has been a gazillion (well maybe not that many) people shoot the 41. That was one of the first thing I thought of was operator error. But all the folks that did shoot it, same issue. The next time I go to the range, I'll ask the guy to bring his 41, and change barrels. Just remembered he has 2 barrels, 5.5 and the 7, both of them jam. So that would lead me to think possibility it's a slide issue. I did replace the extractor thinking that could be it, that was before the sending back to the performance center. It's unknown if they did anything else since their documentations sucks.

Again thanks for your input NCG, greatly appreciated. Will keep this thread updated. Have a bowling pin match this weekend, don't know if the 41 or Buck Mark will be used. The 41 is the first choice.

[daytime dave]

I hope you contact Smith and Wesson and talk to a or the service manager if you have not already. I knew the early 90's was the lifetime service warranty. I was told that it is still up to the gunsmith to determine if the warranty should apply, or you should be charged. Since you were charged for a service that did not properly repair the gun, I'd send it back. I would say take the stand up dealer at his word and us his 41 while yours is repaired or replaced. I'd also stick with him. That's a man who values you as his customer.

I'd agree with NCG's comments on standard velocity ammunition. This gun was meant to run it. I've always been told by all who know Smith and Wesson guns the same information. That's what I use in mine. I'll have to dig mine out and run it a bit. I know what you mean about the issue though, as I have a Beretta model 21 that had an issue with jamming and malfunctioning. I needed to polish the chamber to a much better standard and clean it very often. That corrected the issue.

Good luck and keep us informed.

[North Country Gal]

You're very welcome, Mr.B. I knew the 41's rep for spotty functioning when I bought mine, but bought it, anyway, just because it is a Model 41 and nothing else quite like it. Still, when I hear stories such as yours, I'm reminded of why I like shooting revolvers so much. Seriously, though, revolvers come with their own set of reliability issues, too, despite their reputation of being trouble free. Best of luck and, yes, keep us updated.

[MR.B]

Not much of an update, but really in a quagmire. Was doing some research, and went to my go-to site Numrich, and found a lot of parts for the 41. Slide, barrel, everything to build the upper except for the firing pin. Even found some nice target grips. The two things that have me concerned, first off, all the products are used, so inheriting another problem could be an issue. 2nd is that the total was $650. Don't know if it's worth it to put that much money in it, and have no guarantee that it will fix the issue. And a new one is 1100.

On a KC trip with the 1911 Addicts folks, got to shoot a lot of guns, some very expensive, which a couple were revolvers i.e. Ed Brown. So I got bit, and had chance to buy Esquared's Smith, should have picked that one up, it was a shooter for sure, but have pickup a couple and really like them. Have a couple of nice beginners now.

So what are your opinions on what I should do? Send to back to S&W.....again like previous suggested? Send it to another Smith? Use it until a new one comes in through the dealer that I got it from? Sell it? Buy a new one when Grabagun gets them in? I wouldn't feel right taking the dealers suggestion and loaning his 41, so that option is out even though it is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for everyone's imput.

[Ernie]

I would not feel right about using the dealers gun either.
Instead of the $650 chunk I would probably pick 1 or 2 items that you suspect to be the problem and start there, but that is just me.

[North Country Gal]

Been in this situation, myself, with guns of all sorts. I am on great terms with our local dealers and always leave feedback on the guns I buy from them, good or bad as the feedback may be. They appreciate that. When I get a gun that's been a real headache, I give my dealer(s) a chance to make it right for me and they always make the effort, given that I've been a good customer. This is the big payoff for buying, locally, from folks you know.

After that, the decision is yours, based on what your dealer offers. Given your bad experience with a Model 41, it might be time to consider trading the 41 for a different gun. Be pretty hard, at this point, for you to trust this model, so maybe a fresh start with a different gun model is the way to go. Your dealer may have some suggestions, here.

I absolutely would not start buying spare parts on a trial and error basis until you've identified the problem, exactly, no guesswork or hunches about it. That's a prescription for more headaches and wasted time with no guarantee of success.

[MR.B]

Been in this situation, myself, with guns of all sorts. I am on great terms with our local dealers and always leave feedback on the guns I buy from them, good or bad as the feedback may be. They appreciate that. When I get a gun that's been a real headache, I give my dealer(s) a chance to make it right for me and they always make the effort, given that I've been a good customer. This is the big payoff for buying, locally, from folks you know.

After that, the decision is yours, based on what your dealer offers. Given your bad experience with a Model 41, it might be time to consider trading the 41 for a different gun. Be pretty hard, at this point, for you to trust this model, so maybe a fresh start with a different gun model is the way to go. Your dealer may have some suggestions, here.

I absolutely would not start buying spare parts on a trial and error basis until you've identified the problem, exactly, no guesswork or hunches about it. That's a prescription for more headaches and wasted time with no guarantee of success.

Thank you NCG for your advice. You are right on target about the spare parts. I'll talk to my dealer and see what he has to say.