Uberti 357 Magnum El Patron 1st Outing. Wow.

[ESquared]

This was one of those trips where I had no idea what to expect. A platform (revolvers) I'm not that familiar with. A manual of arms (SAA) I have almost zero experience with. Brand new gun, so new sight picture and grips to figure out. Throw in 3 different reload recipes that were originally loaded up with only the Big Boy Steel 357 in mind, and you get what you see below.

Target on the left is where I started out with some factory Fiocchi 142 gr flat-points, just to try to get my bearings from 6 yds, standing, two handed hold. Okay, but, man, even with a 2.3 lb + gun, this is a fun handful. Sight picture is somewhat different than my 45 Colt Uberti, which just wants to see the very top of the front blade. Tried that here and ended up landing low on almost all the loads. The "low/left" phenomenon is just me trying to get this gun NOT to twist in my hands.

Went from the factory load to the 110 gr XTP/9.0 gr of Unique. The muzzle blast and flames shooting outward from the cylinder is considerably different from the Fiocchi. A LOT different. Same issue: low, left, and this trigger, by the way, is tuned almost exactly like the 45, which is to say light enough for the flyers you see. Another learning curve...

Ended up with the target on the right, where the head shots are 125 gr XTP/17.5 gr of Alliant 2400 and the body shots are 125 gr XTP/19.0 gr of 2400. As noted above, both were loaded a few weeks ago as part of my "anything but a 158 gr XTP" testing. As before, the firestorm coming out of the front of this revolver was a hoot, but a hoot to be treated in a very respectful way. More wrangling with grip, sight picture, the "holy crap" factor, stuff like that. Not very happy with it, but at least my deficiencies are of a consistent nature.

Uberti 357 El Paton 1st Range Trip 3-1-19 003.JPG (170.15 KiB) Viewed 2860 times

The pic below is of the cylinder, post-cleaning, where you can see an example of where the aforementioned blasts (mostly from the Unique and 2400 loads) have taken the bluing off of the front edge of the cylinder (in the same spot in every chamber) in a sort of half-moon shape. Much more of that, and they cylinder will match the CCH look of the frame!

Uberti 357 El Paton 1st Range Trip 3-1-19 011.JPG (90.19 KiB) Viewed 2860 times

Anyway, my takeaway is that I need to research some good "cowboy" loads for this gun. It's not going to be a HD or carry piece, obviously, so I need to figure out a softer shooting, easier to handle load. To that end, I'm all ears from my reloading compadres here on the forum.

All in all, however, I'm very glad I ventured back into the revolver world, just have a few things to figure out.

[CT_Shooter]

Thanks for the range report and the photos, E^2. I'm sure you'll find a .357 load that you like soon enough. For all of the reasons you site, I prefer to use the low end of the reloading data, no matter what bullet I reload. I'm not really interested in beating up my guns or my hands with full house loads. Even so, I have those same half moon shaped markings on my cylinder.

[fortyshooter]

E2....here are some low level 357 Mag loads I use for my old S&W M66.... 125 gr. Hornady XTP loaded over 8.2-8.5 gr. Unique.
I get 1200-1280 FPS out of my 4 inch barrel M66 and 1100 out of my Ruger LCR . 357

For .38 Special brass I load Xtreme 125 gr. plated bullets over 6.0 gr. Unique and see about 940-1000 FPS out of my M66.

Also a known defensive load is the old "FBI" load using the good Rim Rock 158 gr. SWC HP bullet with 6.0 gr. of Power Pistol.
I get 1030 FPS out of my 4 inch M66 and it expands very well in my water jug test stopping in 4th jug.

From what I read shooting hot loads with 125 gr. and lighter weigh bullets can cause some flame cutting issues with the forcing cone
and top strap.

Here is my test of the .38 Special FBI load...
https://youtu.be/254ntTady5E

And thanks for posting your 6 shooin' results!!

[Mags]

.
I had the low/left thing going on today too. After reading your post I took a look at my cylinder and I see the beginnings of the half moon too on mine.

As prior you do a good write-up on your experiences. Thanks for well written thought out sharing!

pinkchk_xsm.png (558 Bytes) Viewed 2853 times

... ended up landing low on almost all the loads. The "low/left" phenomenon is just me trying to get this gun NOT to twist in my hands.
... have taken the bluing off of the front edge of the cylinder (in the same spot in every chamber) in a sort of half-moon shape...

[PT7]

.
I had the low/left thing going on today too. After reading your post I took a look at my cylinder and I see the beings of the half moon too on mine.

As prior you do a good write-up on your experiences. Thanks for well written thought out sharing!

pinkchk_xsm.png

... ended up landing low on almost all the loads. The "low/left" phenomenon is just me trying to get this gun NOT to twist in my hands.
... have taken the bluing off of the front edge of the cylinder (in the same spot in every chamber) in a sort of half-moon shape...

Would be cool to see your target photos, and a few more shots of your revolver, too??

[PT7]

This was one of those trips where I had no idea what to expect. ~~~ A platform (revolvers) I'm not that familiar with. ~~~ All in all, however, I'm very glad I ventured back into the revolver world, just have a few things to figure out.

Know exactly what you're saying, Evan. Although I have always favored and shot wheel guns, it has been with D/A revolvers. The S/A Cowboy Six Gun is a different critter. (At first, the Russian top break took me to Siberia, dumped me, and I was lost as to what to do next! ) Took me a while to kinda "untrain" from all the memory work I've done with a D/A trigger. I haven't forgotten it because I still regularly shoot D/A with my LCRx. But had to work at the S/A side of revolvers.

For me the "changeover" has been much fun. Glad you're enjoying your "venture back into the revolver world."
PT7

[ESquared]

E2....here are some low level 357 Mag loads I use for my old S&W M66.... 125 gr. Hornady XTP loaded over 8.2-8.5 gr. Unique.
I get 1200-1280 FPS out of my 4 inch barrel M66 and 1100 out of my Ruger LCR . 357

For .38 Special brass I load Xtreme 125 gr. plated bullets over 6.0 gr. Unique and see about 940-1000 FPS out of my M66.

Also a known defensive load is the old "FBI" load using the good Rim Rock 158 gr. SWC HP bullet with 6.0 gr. of Power Pistol.
I get 1030 FPS out of my 4 inch M66 and it expands very well in my water jug test stopping in 4th jug.

From what I read shooting hot loads with 125 gr. and lighter weigh bullets can cause some flame cutting issues with the forcing cone
and top strap.

Here is my test of the .38 Special FBI load...
https://youtu.be/254ntTady5E

And thanks for posting your 6 shooin' results!!

Great stuff, Fortyshooter, thanks very much. I'll dial back the Unique and see what happens. For these 110 grain XTPs, I'll need to do some more manual work. I'm not sure what "flame cutting issues" are, but it sounds BAD, so I'll want to avoid it! Haven't even really thought about 38 special, as I'm not eager to deal with another inventory variable, brass-wise. Might be advisable, though, just to get to something that's more manageable. I'm sure a Google of "Cowboy 357 SAA" will yield a trove of info, it's just a matter of sorting through it.
Appreciate your guidance!

[ESquared]

Interesting to hear that all of you are seeing the "half moon" burning of the end of the cylinder. I've never owned a blued revolver, so I'm guessing it's been there on my stainless cylinders in my past 357s. I'll consider them character markings.

[Mags]

.
Just finished the write-up on that and posted http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... 233#p86233

Would be cool to see your target photos, and a few more shots of your revolver, too??

.
I had the low/left thing going on today too. After reading your post I took a look at my cylinder and I see the beings of the half moon too on mine.

As prior you do a good write-up on your experiences. Thanks for well written thought out sharing!

pinkchk_xsm.png

... ended up landing low on almost all the loads. The "low/left" phenomenon is just me trying to get this gun NOT to twist in my hands.
... have taken the bluing off of the front edge of the cylinder (in the same spot in every chamber) in a sort of half-moon shape...

[fortyshooter]

Low and left? Did you try shooting with your left hand assuming you shoot right handed and see where the bullet hits?
Sometimes a hard pull on the trigger could bring the barrel down and left a bit.

Don't bother with loading .38 Special unless you had that brass handy. You can load the .357 to same levels.

[Mags]

.
I'm having alternate ideas on the source of the half mooning. I'm thinking its caused initially by abrasion while in the box (no padding) it came in. Then gets added to when taking it in and out of the box and during transport in the box to the range. That the burn covers it up during shooting and then the mooning gets noticed during cleaning.

Interesting to hear that all of you are seeing the "half moon" burning of the end of the cylinder. I've never owned a blued revolver, so I'm guessing it's been there on my stainless cylinders in my past 357s. I'll consider them character markings.

[ESquared]

To my eye, it's not an abrasion type of issue. And, it if were a shipping-related thing, it wouldn't explain how it's so visible on all cylinders and is so uniform on all cylinders.

No, this strikes me as heat-induced. Since mine didn't come through Taylor's, I'll try to figure out who I might send a picture to. If any of you other UB owners have a thought, please let me know.

I"m not worried about it, and, given the number of us who are seeing it, seems like it would be hard not to call it "normal," but it would be nice to know how normal, wouldn't it?

[PT7]

The pic below is of the cylinder, post-cleaning, where you can see an example of where the aforementioned blasts have taken the bluing off of the front edge of the cylinder (in the same spot in every chamber) in a sort of half-moon shape.
Uberti 357 El Paton 1st Range Trip 3-1-19 011.JPG

This pic is of my .357 Police revolver. This spot shows the "worst" chamber on the cylinder. The other chambers have much less, one is close to nothing but a thin, straight line at the very front of cylinder. Have shot 125 rounds so far, exclusively Cowboy loads.

DSCN3116.JPG (192.17 KiB) Viewed 2849 times

I've called Stoeger Industries Service Department a couple of times with some technical questions about this revolver. The tech was very helpful, and explained things well to me. Actually, you'd call the CS of whichever company your revolver came from: Stoeger or Taylor & Co.

Not sure what causes it. But since it will probably happen regularly, I'm not going to have my cylinder re-blued anytime soon because of this issue.

BTW, on my blued Russian .45 Colt there are some similar markings, not blossoming into the "moon shape;" rather they run only in a thin, straight line at edge of cylinder for each chamber. Interesting.
PT7

[ESquared]

I've looked at the "contact us" page of the UbertiUSA website, and there doesn't seem to be a provision for adding a photo, so I might call them and see how far I get.

[North Country Gal]

Do NOT stress about that half moon markings on the cylinder. It is common to many revolvers, both double action and single action. I get it on most of my revolvers, in fact. Not a big deal and not something to waste time on with calls to the manufacturer. It's simply a by-product of gas escaping from the cylinder gap. As long as the gun is not excessively spitting lead or fouling up, abnormally, at the forcing cone, just clean it and go on.

Shooting low and left is most commonly caused by squeezing your hand while pulling the trigger. You must NOT change the pressure with your grip in any way as you squeeze the trigger. Only your trigger finger must move, never the entire hand. Dry fire your gun, exaggerating the squeeze in your grip hand and watch the sights as you do it. One helpful hint for getting accuracy out of plow handle single actions, is to place your pinky finger under the bottom of the grip. This puts your hand in the same position for every shot and it actually makes it more difficult to squeeze that grip hand. Give it a try.

[PT7]

Do NOT stress about that half moon markings on the cylinder. It is common to many revolvers, both double action and single action. I get it on most of my revolvers, in fact. Not a big deal and not something to waste time on with calls to the manufacturer. It's simply a by-product of gas escaping from the cylinder gap. As long as the gun is not excessively spitting lead or fouling up, abnormally, at the forcing cone, just clean it and go on.

Thanks, NCG. This is for sure something that is not that stressful to me. I barely notice this shooting "scars;" just clean the revolver after range time, then head down the trail. But I did find it to be an interesting chat.

There has got to be some gun wear & tear since we "explode" that much pressure with each round fired. The cylinder on my Russian is particularly nicely marred and scarred from shooting. My next range visit will bring me well over 300 rounds out of that revolver. Also dis-assembly/re-assembly of the cylinder and frame writes its own history. The very first time I dis-assembled it for cleaning I ran a scratch from the front to rear of the cylinder....and that wasn't the only time I did that! Took me a while to learn how to move the retaining plate sufficiently out of the way to mitigate doing this. Taylor & Co. said they can re-blue my cylinder for around $20. Almost sent it in, but realized I would probably repeat the scratches fairly quickly. So it remains as is.

One final comment on this Russian. Of all the revolvers I've cleaned, this one has the least dirty and easiest to clean forcing cone of all others. Kind of have tried to figure that, but don't know enough about how a forcing cone and cylinder are built and may impact each other. I do always pay close attention to how it shoots, so that's at least taking care of the revolver.

Might do a little reading about forcing cones today. We're heading into another winter storm later in the day and overnight. So I'll be hunkering down and just watching snowflakes fly!

PT7

[Mags]

.
Adding to what has already been shared...
http://www.peacemakerspecialists.com/Co ... orner.html

On some Peacemakers that have been shot a lot you will see what looks like areas on the front corners of the cylinder right where the chambers are, places where it looks like the blue has come off. They will appear gray color and are on the front end of the cylinder. This discoloration is really just lead deposits that seem to have wrapped around the corner and extend on to the outside of the cylinder. These deposits are difficult to remove without actually rubbing through the blue finish.

[Mags]

.
I figured it was something like that I was doing. Thanks for explaining the mechanics of the behavior and how to practice overcoming it!

Shooting low and left is most commonly caused by squeezing your hand while pulling the trigger. You must NOT change the pressure with your grip in any way as you squeeze the trigger. Only your trigger finger must move, never the entire hand. Dry fire your gun, exaggerating the squeeze in your grip hand and watch the sights as you do it. One helpful hint for getting accuracy out of plow handle single actions, is to place your pinky finger under the bottom of the grip. This puts your hand in the same position for every shot and it actually makes it more difficult to squeeze that grip hand. Give it a try.

[Mags]

.
I spent last evening dry fire practicing and examining. Looks like when I pull the trigger all my other fingers twitch/clinch in unison. Takes a lot of concentration to just twitch/squeeze my trigger finger without the rest of my hand doing it too. Like that's the way my nerves are wired in my hand. I did do the pinky under the grip and that helps. But it also left the inside of my pinky sore where it was chaffing on the bottom corner of the grip. Again thanks for the help. Will keep dry practicing and when I have more ammo see if I can do better for real.

.I figured it was something like that I was doing. Thanks for explaining the mechanics of the behavior and how to practice overcoming it!

Shooting low and left is most commonly caused by squeezing your hand while pulling the trigger. You must NOT change the pressure with your grip in any way as you squeeze the trigger. Only your trigger finger must move, never the entire hand. Dry fire your gun, exaggerating the squeeze in your grip hand and watch the sights as you do it. One helpful hint for getting accuracy out of plow handle single actions, is to place your pinky finger under the bottom of the grip. This puts your hand in the same position for every shot and it actually makes it more difficult to squeeze that grip hand. Give it a try.

[GFK]

Looks like you had fun! I have found that my revolver (.357) is more true to aim at least 15 yards from a target, and my Derringer (.38) is true at no more than 7 yards from a target. Along with the others advise, I would try opening up the range some just to see the point of impact also. When certifying with a .38 revolver, we typically stayed within the 15-25 yards range.