Henry 45-70 brass lever safe & good reloading for newbies

[BruniX]

Hello everyone
I will receive in January a superb Henry 45-70 Brass lift action with octagonal barrel.
As the ammunition is very expensive (especially here in France) and that it is, moreover, very interesting,
I would like to reload my ammunition.
(no hunting for the moment (may be in future) , leisure and sport shooting)

Completely new in the world of reloading,
I have done a lot of research for 15 days to try to understand something, and to practice it safely.

I think I understood the use of the "Die" to resize, evasing the cases and then crimp the bullet.
(a lot of youtube video playback, and reload websites reading), lub, resize and so on ....

My problem is on the choice and the dosage of the powder...
Indeed, for example on the "HodGDon reloading center", there are 3 categories of reloads of the caliber 45-70:

- trapdoor riffles (old riffle, it seems to me..)
- lever actions
- modern riffles

these three levels offer different bullet, powder and pressure.

on many explanatory documents, it is said that the third category is reserved for bolt-action rifles, as the ruger No. 1
Some documents or websites, however, seem to consider that recent rifles, Marlin or Henry type support this kind of pressure ....

In addition, Hornady bullet type 325 Gr FTX leverevolution, a priori very well suited to henry and marlin lever action,
appear mainly in third category ...

My first and main question is therefore whether to recharge in second category,
or can we go to the beginning of third category without risks?

Second question, is , maybe, more simple, what bullet/case/powder/primer combination do you recommend ?

and for standard ammo (with, why not the idea of recovering the cases to reload) ?
Federal Power shock , Remington core lockt , winchester super X , barnes vor-tx , Hornady FTX ?
others are difficult to find... like buffalo bore ...

in France,
the most expensive is remington , nearly 85$ by twenty round !
the less expensive is Federal , nearly 46$ by twenty round ...

Friendly,
BruniX

[ESquared]

You will want to follow the instructions for "Lever Action" rifles as you research components and "recipes" for various combinations of powders and bullets.

Hornady LeveRevolution has been written about many times here on the forum, although I'm not sure about the 45-70 caliber specifically. In general, the results from an accuracy and feeding standpoint have been mixed, with the ammo working fine in some rifles and not so well in others. Many have decided it's very expensive to "test" this ammo when there are others available with proven track records.

So, stay with load recipes specific to Lever Action.

As to which combination of bullet weight, powder, primer, casing, the two primary variables will be powder and bullet. You will need Large Rifle Primers, and most don't claim to notice a difference between available brands. By all means, you should "harvest"/recover your used factory ammo casings to use in reloading, in addition to buying new, unfired cases (if they are available to you). The used cases will need to be re-sized to correct for the expansion of the case that occurs during firing.

As with primers, many reloaders (especially beginners - like me) will not notice much difference between used cases, as long as they are well-recognized brands to begin with.

For standard "factory" ammo, there may be some trial and error/testing needed to see what your new rifle "prefers" in terms of accuracy, but Federal is used widely by many Henry owners in many different calibers, so that would be a good place to start.

Hope this helps, but, if not, keep asking questions!

[JEBar]

when looking for load recommendations, your Henry is designed to handle the "Lever Action" data on your list, also found as being labeled "Government" in most manuals over here .... your Henry can also fire the lower power "trapdoor" loads which have much lower recoil .... stay away from the more powerful "strong action" or Ruger #1 loads .... your 45-70 with a full power dangerous game load has a substantial kick .... loading down to what over here is known as Cowboy Action ammo, works well and is much more pleasant to fire .... it doesn't take a maximum power load to punch a hole in a target or to ring a gong on a range .... without knowing what type of powder and bullets are available to you, exact recommendations would be difficult to make .... so long as they are in good/safe condition, reloading factory cases is fine .... if you can order empty, never used cases, the savings are considerable .... for more specific recommendations, it would help to know a bit more about laws governing reloading in your country

[BruniX]

Thanks for those quick answers !

I had also asked Henry's technical department for the category, and indeed they say that we should not go beyond the second.

concerning the type of ammunition of the trade, they advise against the leverevolution ... for problems of blockage with the reloading, in particular ...

Surprisingly, they do not recommend using refilled ammunition !
I imagine that many must do it yet, among the owners of Henry ...

Here in France the legislation for reloading is simple:
- 2 kg (approximately 4 pounds) maximum of powder at home.
- 1000 cartridges loaded for a weapon at home.

weapons in a armored rifle cabinet locked by key or by digital code

it's easy enough when you have a sports shooting license. (or a hunting license)
for others, it's totally forbidden to buy !

we can easily have the following powders:
HodGdon (a lot of choices and information, it seems to me)
IMR (same company? The reloading center is identical...)

Vihtavuori européeen. no group 1 and 2 in 45-70 on the web!
https://www.vihtavuori.com/

Vectan européeen. does not show groups on reload tables !
http://www.vectan.fr/

I think that the 45-70 is not very well known at home, and therefore the choice of American powders is probably better for LSG rifles.
Here we find a lot of things on 12 (slug), 5.56 nato, 7.62 nato, 9mm luger, but much less on 30-30, 45-70 !

for the balls, it is possible to find:
- Sierra (the most common)
- barnes
- remington
- speer

impossible to find: bufffalo boron, lee high ...


the primers:
CCI
Federal

the cases:
-Starline
-Winchester
-Remington


a possible combination ?

Sierra HP 300Gr
+
Hodgdon H4198 55 Gr (lower loading)
+
winchester case, or starline?


Did any of you use this?

see you sonn, going to bed (night here )

[JEBar]

Surprisingly, they do not recommend using refilled ammunition !
I imagine that many must do it yet, among the owners of Henry ...

many of our members do load their own ammo .... the reason Henry can't recommend doing so isn't based on engineering, its based on legal liability .... there is a basic set of standards which all commercial ammo manufactures must follow ... the firearms manufactures must produce their rifles, shotguns, and handguns to handle those specs .... there isn't any way Henry can be sure handloaders follow the commercial standards so they cannot recommend their use .... in fact they must recommend against doing so

we can easily have the following powders:
HodGdon (a lot of choices and information, it seems to me)
IMR (same company? The reloading center is identical...)

you should do well with those powders .... IMR 4198 is considered by many as the go-to powder for a 45-70

a possible combination ?

Sierra HP 300Gr
+
Hodgdon H4198 55 Gr (lower loading)
+
winchester case, or starline?

while any commercial brand case is fine, If you can order Starline brass, you can't go wrong .... its what many of us use .... I use 300 gr Nosler-Winchester Combined Technology Ballistic Silvertips .... http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-p ... -50ct.html .... per our manuals, for a 300 gr bullet loaded for our Henry rifles, they recommend 47.5 to 51.5 gr of IMR 4198 ..... the use of 55 grs would be excessive, I'd recommend against it .... in my search for a range load I'm up to 44 grs which is more of a trapdoor load .... I have some loaded but do not know how well they will perform .... I do know that less than 44 leaves too much empty room in the case which results in inconsistent muzzle velocities

[Mags]

I read somewhere on this forum that the number of times that brass cases can be reloaded is limited. And that reloaded cases need to kept separate/segregated based on number of times they have been reloaded.

[JEBar]

I've read that as well and frankly, pay no attention to it .... I inspect each case as I'm getting ready to deprime/resize it ... if I don't see any sign of any issue, into the die it goes and is reloaded

[Mags]

.
How do you check/test for microscopic metal fatigue?

I've read that as well and frankly, pay no attention to it .... I inspect each case as I'm getting ready to deprime/resize it ... if I don't see any sign of any issue, into the die it goes and is reloaded

[JEBar]

How do you check/test for microscopic metal fatigue?

the simple answer is, I can't so I don't .... that is true for a brand new case from Starline, one that has been fired once, twice, three times, ets .... some signs are obvious, like split cases, primers that just don't feel right when seated, pressure marks from the extractor, bulges and such .... wish I could give a better answer

[BruniX]

A lot of interesting information !
more information in 4 or 5 post than during two weeks of research !!

so I can imagine starting at 44Gr and see what it gives ....

you have to be careful to respect the COAL (cartridge over all length : 2.550 inch (64.8 mm) ...
and watch the case length: 2.105 inch (53.5 mm) for used cases
the values seems correct to you ?

Does anyone have a particular book to recommend on reloading, like lyman 50 'th or something else ?

see you soon,
BruniX

[JEBar]

so I can imagine starting at 44Gr and see what it gives ....

do you have access to a Chronograph .. .. I'm not recommending starting at 44 gr .... what I do know is less than that hasn't worked well for us .... the muzzle velocities can vary by hundreds of feet per second .... you may well be happy firing full power loads, if so, that may be what's best for you .... what I'm looking for is a consistent, reasonably flat shooting, out to 100 yards, low recoil load that is fun to shoot .... if/when I take it big game hunting, I'll have worked up a load consistent with what's needed to do the job .... my best suggestion is for you to settle on a bullet and then check to find load data from the folks who manufacture it ... follow their recommended load data because they know more about their bullets than anyone else .... secondly, only load up a few test rounds at at a time

you have to be careful to respect the COAL (cartridge over all length : 2.550 inch (64.8 mm) ...
and watch the case length: 2.105 inch (53.5 mm) for used cases
the values seems correct to you ?

all bullet and case manufactures in the US are supposed to follow standards .... one reason I do not recommend Hornady Lever Revolution 45-70 ammo is their cases are shorter than standard .... they have to do so because to the design of their bullets .... you shouldn't reload them with any other type of bullet .... I set my bullet seating die to where the lip of the case in in the bullet's crimp ring (AKA Cannelure) .... so long as that is the case, I don't worry about measuring each bullet

Does anyone have a particular book to recommend on reloading, like lyman 50 'th or something else ?

here again, I recommend you get a manual from the bullet manufacture and follow their recommendations .... I have several different manuals but since I use Nosler bullets I rely on what data from their manual

[ESquared]

The Lyman manual is a good place to start, although many reloaders accumulate multiple manuals over time because different publishers offer different "recipes" for the same caliber.

For example, I'm just starting out, and have the Lyman and the Hornady manuals. I may add the Nosler book soon.

[JEBar]

The Lyman manual is a good place to start, although many reloaders accumulate multiple manuals over time because different publishers offer different "recipes" for the same caliber.

For example, I'm just starting out, and have the Lyman and the Hornady manuals. I may add the Nosler book soon.

over the years I've added several manuals to my collection .... older ones by Lyman, Hornady, Sierra, Speer .... they were purchased when Nosler didn't offer a bullet that I needed .... one handy older manual for 45-70 is "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .45-70 Gov't " ===> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004JOGNQS/re ... 58012&sr=1 .... its a bit dated but is still a pretty good resource .... we also have all but one of the Nosler Manuals ever published

[BruniX]

i was interested by "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .45-70 Gov't", i have seen it, but ,
Unfortunately , it is impossible to get it.... shipped in France ...

according to you, xhat is the best bullet to reload ? (weight and brand ...)
300gr ? 350gr ? 405gr ?
speer, sierra, h & m , barnes ?

which one do you use?

is it bad for the henry to use full lead bullet (without brass), or even to sink them even ? accumlation of lead in the barrel ?

[JEBar]

according to you, xhat is the best bullet to reload ? (weight and brand ...)
300gr ? 350gr ? 405gr ?
speer, sierra, h & m , barnes ?

"best" --- what do you plan to shoot with your rifle .... what distances do you plan to shoot .... recreational shooting or hunting .... it doesn't take a great bullet to punch a hole in a paper target .... Speer, Sierra & Barnes are all very good companies .... as a general rule, the lighter the bullet, the flatter the trajectory, the lower the recoil .... once you start pulling the trigger of your 45-70 you will quickly learn that you have a very strong rifle in your hands ....

which one do you use?

I use Nosler's 300 gr Ballistic Silvertips (link given in an earlier post) .... they will take down any animal I'm even remotely likely to hunt .... should I ever have the need I can develop loads for 400 or even 500 gr bullets ....

is it bad for the henry to use full lead bullet (without brass), or even to sink them even ? accumlation of lead in the barrel ?

fellows who have a far greater knowledge in this area have reported that one shouldn't fire lead and jacketed bullets in the same barrel .... I've done it in the past but no longer do so .... you can most certainly use lead bullets and if you keep the muzzle velocity down lead buildup isn't supposed to be an issue .... exactly where to draw the line is somewhat open to discussion .... since I don't use them, I'd rather let others who do respond to this question

[BruniX]

thanks !
it is that, , i think :

https://www.nosler.com/45-70-govt-strong-actions-only/


interesting, this surface coating, and look good

and reloading data :
Is it with this bullet that you use imr 4198 , 47.5 Gr,... 51.5gr ?

[Mags]

As mentioned earlier I don't reload. But I am following this topic with great curiosity and interest for the education.

[BigAl52]

Shooting lead bullets in your 45-70 one must make sure he slugs the bore to get correct bullet size for the gun. You should use a bullet that is .001 over the bore size to obtain a proper seal so leading doesn't occur. So if the bore slugs .457 you should be shooting a cast bullet that measures .458. The 405 grain bullet is found quite frequently offered in a cast lead bullet. Ive shot lead in the past in the 2 that I have but I am trending away from the lead bullets as Im not wanting to use lead bullets much anymore. The jacketed bullets are just cleaner. I would also caution one on using the Speer 350 grain jacketed bullet as the bullet is to long for the 45-70 and when loaded and crimped in the crimp groove it will be to long to cycle thru the Henry.

[JEBar]

thanks !
it is that, , i think :

https://www.nosler.com/45-70-govt-strong-actions-only/


interesting, this surface coating, and look good

and reloading data :
Is it with this bullet that you use imr 4198 , 47.5 Gr,... 51.5gr ?

yes, that's what I use .... the loads listed are for actions like the one in our Henry Rifles .... as noted above, in developing a load I'm working in the trapdoor range .... right now I have a dozen loaded with 44 grains of 4198 .... if they prove to produce reasonably consistent muzzle velocities, I will load some more and see how well they group .... if they don't work I'll probably go to 45 grains and restart the process

[BruniX]

according to you, xhat is the best bullet to reload ? (weight and brand ...)
"best" --- what do you plan to shoot with your rifle .... what distances do you plan to shoot .... recreational shooting or hunting .... it doesn't take a great bullet to punch a hole in a paper target .... Speer, Sierra & Barnes are all very good companies .... as a general rule, the lighter the bullet, the flatter the trajectory, the lower the recoil .... once you start pulling the trigger of your 45-70 you will quickly learn that you have a very strong rifle in your hands ....

next 3 - 6 month, i think it will be only pratice on paper target, no hunt...
may be an inexpensive bullet will be reasonable,
like this :
https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bul ... ullet/2482
this one is less than 50% of Nosler, here

and also, a little less in quantity of powder ,
so a little less than half the cost of reloading in nosler....

may be a good choice to pratice , no ?

there is one thing that intrigues me, the reload data seem to indicate less powder for a heavier bullet.
IMR 4198
36 Gr for 400gr bullet,
and 39 Gr for 300 Gr ....
I would rather have thought that a heavier bullet needed more powder,
but maybe it is to limit the pressure ...?