Kitchen knives

[dave77]

Got them today and sliced up a few veggies. Very nice looking and very sharp. That is a mushroom slice behind the radish slices.

[Mags]

Those are great looking knives. Made my Christmas wish list.

[ChefDuane]

Nice knives. Its also been my observation that one who has skills with a knife can make any knife look good. But no $300 knife is going to make a shoemaker look good. Practice, practice, practice!!

[clovishound]

Nice knives. Its also been my observation that one who has skills with a knife can make any knife look good. But no $300 knife is going to make a shoemaker look good. Practice, practice, practice!!

While good tools are an important part of any skill, it is no doubt the person behind the tool is the key factor. I remember years ago when I was into photography, you know, back when everyone used film, there were folks that thought that if they spent a lot of money on high end photography equipment that it would dramatically improve their photography. Most would have been better served to spend their money on some classes.

Having said that, it is still a joy to use a fine tool.

[clovishound]

All these sharpening posts have me wondering. I seem to remember that the package the Wusthof came in mentioned something about a 12 degree angle on the bevel. I'm pretty sure I sharpened it pretty close to the original bevel angle which appears to be somewhere at or below 15 degrees. Doing some reading on the internet I see that western knives are traditionally sharpened at a steeper angle. More like 20 degrees. I'm sure the steel in this lower tier Wusthof is not up to the same standard as some of the harder japanese steels that sharpened at much shallower angles. The 20 degree edge will last longer between sharpenings, although it will not glide though foods as easily. Any thoughts about bevel angle?

[daytime dave]

Those are beautiful knives. Use them well and show us more of what you make.

[dave77]

Both of my new knives have a 12 degree bevel.

I think I'm going to order a King 1000/6000 waterstone and was also thinking of getting a ceramic honing rod. One of the few ceramic rods I see on Amazon states the grit is 1500. So I'm wondering if I sharpen a knife with the 6000 grit waterstone and then hone it with the 1500 grit rod won't I actually be dulling the blade? Are the grit ratings different between ceramic and waterstones?

[clovishound]

I haven't been able to confirm it, but I suspect that the rods are equivalent to sandpaper grits. A 6000 grit waterstone should be somewhere between 1500 and 2000 grit sandpaper. If you want to go finer than 6000 waterstone, I would look at stropping with CrO2. That's the green abrasive crayons. I normally strop plane irons and chisels with CrO2 on wood, but think that a leather strop would be better for a knife. I need to try stropping a knife on wood with CrO2.

6000 grit waterstones are 2 microns. CrO2 is .5 microns. So you are moving up quite a bit.

Source: https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

[dave77]

I haven't been able to confirm it, but I suspect that the rods are equivalent to sandpaper grits. A 6000 grit waterstone should be somewhere between 1500 and 2000 grit sandpaper. If you want to go finer than 6000 waterstone, I would look at stropping with CrO2. That's the green abrasive crayons. I normally strop plane irons and chisels with CrO2 on wood, but think that a leather strop would be better for a knife. I need to try stropping a knife on wood with CrO2.

6000 grit waterstones are 2 microns. CrO2 is .5 microns. So you are moving up quite a bit.

Source: https://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/grits.htm

Is this what you're talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/Knives-Plus-Stro ... +strop+kit

https://www.amazon.com/Polishing-Compou ... B076X3LNQ3

[daytime dave]

I generally sharpen on the Worksharp and then use a ceramic rod to hone. I also use the ceramic rod to touch up a knife that got used a bit. I find that six or ten touch ups on a ceramic rod and then another sharpening session on the Worksharp. "Your results may vary"

[clovishound]

Is this what you're talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/Knives-Plus-Stro ... +strop+kit

https://www.amazon.com/Polishing-Compou ... B076X3LNQ3

Yep, that's it. The green oxide may be available locally for you. It used to be available in places like Lowes. I see that Harbor Freight carries it. I see the strop you linked to is preloaded with compound. I think I would prefer to do it myself, but that's just me.

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quart ... 96778.html

Be careful stropping. It's easy to over do. You can dub (round over) the edge by stropping too long, or at too steep an angle, or too much pressure on the leather, which in effect makes it too steep an angle. A light touch at about the same angle as the bevel, and just a few strokes gets the job done. A little judicious stropping can take an edge from sharp to OMG. Also, it's important to keep the strop free of stray grit. Once a piece of grit gets embedded in the strop, it's almost impossible to remove it, and the grit will scratch the blade every time it passes over that area.

If you have access to reasonably priced leather, it is easy enough to make your own strop. Just glue a strip down to a piece of wood and load it with buffing compound. Make sure it's nice and flat.

The other thing to consider is how sharp do I need this edge to be? For woodworking tools, the sharper the better. The finer the final grit and smoother the edge, the easier it is to work with, and the longer the edge will last. For a kitchen knife, many professionals prefer not to go to the finest abrasives. They find that something like 600 - 800 grit gives them a little bit rougher edge that serves them better cutting things like ripe tomatoes and such. In effect it gives them mini serrations. The edge probably won't last quite so long, but it is more useful to their needs.

Let me add that I am reasonably conversant in sharpening woodworking tools, but knives are something I have not seriously gotten into. There is definitely a transference here, I can easily put an arm shaving edge on any non serrated knife in the kitchen, but I don't know a lot of the ins and outs of knife sharpening. Right now I am stoning on a 750 grit Smith's diamond plate that I picked up on clearance years ago. It is well worn, but still cuts. I finish off with a steel, which I also use to refresh the edge between sharpenings. If I have a really dull, or damaged bevel, I take the knife out to the shop and use my scary sharp system to repair the edge. Scary sharp is just sandpaper glued to a flat granite surface. Pick the grit you need and replace the sheet when it gets dull. There's no periodic flattening of the stones, and none of the mess and waiting for stones to soak, or cleaning up honing oil.

[clovishound]

Well, I got curious and went and got a piece of scrap wood from the shop and flattened it up with a 100 year old hand plane tonight. I loaded the surface up with Chrome oxide and did a little stropping on the Wusthof knife. I have a leather strop buried somewhere in the shop, but wood scraps are easy to find, and it is less likely to dub an edge with a hard surface, although the leather is much easier to strop with, you just have to be careful about the angle and pressure.

Anyway, the results were impressive. After stropping, I cut a tomato. The knife glided it right through it like it wasn't event there. Made a believer out of me. I have had the same experience with chisels, so I shouldn't be surprised. I will have to scare up the leather strop.

[dave77]

Ordered a 1000/6000 whetstone and a new ceramic steel, I will do some practicing on my older cheaper kitchen knives before using them on my new knives. I may get some of the Chrome oxide later. My stepfather was a barber and I have his razor strop around somewhere.

I had emailed Zelight with a sharpening question and they gave me this list of videos to watch:

https://youtu.be/lVCM5BfeA8c
Shun Training Video – very good overview of knife construction and maintenance

https://youtu.be/MUdrRE7W0b4
Bob Kramer – Honing your Knife

https://youtu.be/kFhMGJYhYpU
Bob Kramer – Knife Sharpening

https://youtu.be/xRPrswhMdAc
Bob Kramer – what is sharp?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20gwf7YttQM
Good video showing good practice

https://youtu.be/yykh-1zQSYU?list=PLN1R ... ti0C5MK9Gu
Knife Skills training videos

How to sharpen a serrated edge
https://youtu.be/9dUb4z7JC8M

Choosing the right knife
https://youtu.be/pKgGlpe45T0

Knife Sharpening With Mino Tsuchida
https://youtu.be/SIw5ChGOADE

[PT7]

Early on in this thread, I made this post. Didn't have much info on this Cuisinart knife, one of my regularly-used kitchen knives.

I use three different-make knives for my kitchen duties.

5" Cuisinart Classic Stainless Steel
This was a gift from one of my daughters. Believe she purchased it at a Bed, Bath, and Beyond, which is her favorite store. It is lightweight, comfortable in my large hand, holds sharpness well. I like it particularly because it is so plain....all nice-looking stainless. Does a good job for me especially that I'm always dicing vegetables and potatoes. Sorry, never took any photos.

While I was looking through one of my tool boxes today, I found the card that came with the Cuisinart blade. It was a 2012 Christmas gift from my daughter, and she bought it at Kohls rather than at B,B,and B. I decided to take a photo today, and write up what more I learned about it.

The Steel
Still don't know what blade steel is used other than this statement: "high-carbon stainless steel." What I do know is that it had a razor-sharp edge when I got it, and has maintained good sharpness over the last six years. I have only sharpened it twice in that time, and used it a lot ---- mostly for veggies and fruits, and at times some meat prep. Great kitchen knife.

The Bolster and The Handle
As you can see, this is a fixed blade, all made in a single piece of stainless steel. The blade is 5" OAL, and the bolster & handle measure 4.5" OAL. It fits perfectly in my hand, and is very easy to use. I think the ergonomics are quite good in this design.

The Blade and The Kullens
Always something new to learn. The knife has a 5" Santoku blade design, with kullens placed into the blade, both sides. In the below photo, they are seen in an oval shape. OK, here is what I learned when I researched the use of kullens for a knife:
"Kullens are typically added to a knife blade to minimize contact between the food being cut and the flat of the blade, reducing friction and supposedly allowing cleaner, more even cuts." Appears they are basically a kind of "air pocket."

I cannot verify the design purpose of kullens, but know this knife works for me!

So that's what I've discovered. Here is a picture of the third member of my trio of kitchen cutlery.
PT7

Santoku 5-inch stainless_2652.JPG

[Mags]

Thank you so much for forwarding on the information you received from Zelight. They give me hope that our Hencklel's can be revived.

...I had emailed Zelight with a sharpening question and they gave me this list...

[dave77]

So I have been using my Zelites for awhile now and decided they needed a little sharpening. They were still pretty sharp as I touch them up regularly with my ceramic rod but decided to try out my 6000 and 8000 waterstones and leather strop with some green polishing compound. They are now very sharp. This was with the paring knife, I was afraid to try it with the Santoku. I can't imagine shaving with a straight razor, as you can see the angle of the blade is very important!!