.243 Win vs. .308 Win

[North Country Gal]

Those cartridges will almost all be bolt action guns, now, but the 257 and 7mm-08 have been used in other gun actions in the past, though I don't know of any, currently. Now and then, I'll run across an old vintage Remington pump in the 257 from the days before the 243. You might still be able to find a 7mm-08 in some lever guns or autos, but, as I said, they really are bolt gun rounds.

Now, if you want to explore specialty pistols like the TCs or the Remington XPs and so on, no problem. The 7mm-08 has been especially popular in silhouette handgun in various specialty pistols. The 7mm-08 makes a great Encore pistol round, for instance. Have also shot the 243, the 308, the 257 Roberts, the 30-06 and even the 444 Marlin in Encore pistols. Just a matter of changing barrels. Of course, we're talking some very serious recoil when we go pistol on some of these. Not for the faint of heart.

[Ozarkridgerunner]

I agree with NCG there are a lot of excellent calibers out there in between the .243 and .308. And as was also mentioned, the 6 mm Rem is almost identical to the .243. We have two in Remington 700 models and love them. Spot on also on the .257 Roberts , NCG. My Dad now deer hunts primarily with that caliber in a Custom Remington 700 BDL. A tack driving , deer slaying machine.

Okay, to muddy the water, here, don't forget that there are a lot of other cartridges that fit between the 243 and the 308 afar as recoil and some offer better big game performance than the 243.

My favorite has always been the 257 Roberts. Recoil is on a par with the 243 and another great dual use cartridge. It was actually the original dual purpose varmint/deer cartridge and much loved by Jack O'Connor. Gets you into a little heavier 117 or 120 grain bullet for big game work. Really got mothballed, though, when the gun market writers hyped the 243 when it was introduced. Factory ammo, though, is harder to find and pricey, now. An old-timer friend of ours used to work for the DNR as a deer culler in areas where deer were a problem. He never used anything but his 257 Roberts Model 70 and literally shot hundreds of deer with it. Sweet shooting cartridge.

The 7mm-08 is another great in-between cartridge. Still less recoil than the 308, but not as good a varmint cartridge as the 243 as far as factory ammo selection. Very accurate, though.

You guys are making this very interesting, aren't you?

Not to play the fan-boy, but I'm particularly taken right now with the Long Ranger, so I haven't even thrown the caliber choices you note above into the mix, even though I'm sure they're all legitimate, fantastic choices! I love my lever actions and I've quickly become a Henry convert. And, my research on the Long Ranger has furthered my enthusiasm for the brand and this particular model.

But, just for grins, what current brands/models are candidates for a 257 Roberts round, or a 7mm-08 or the 6mm Rem? It's all new to me, so why not check it out, right?

And I thought I had it narrowed down...

I am going to be biased somewhat in my pick of rifle model and manufacturer. I prefer bolt guns for hunting. My picks are the older Model 700 Remington's and pre- 64 Winchester Model 70's. Tons of other great rifles out there though. .257 Roberts will be a bit harder to come by but if you find a rifle that you like in this caliber, snatch it up. You won't regret it. Not much experience with the '08 but a good caliber I hear. On the 6 mm , love that cartridge. Again my rifle of choice in that round is the 700 Remington. Good luck!!

[North Country Gal]

With you on the bolt guns, Ozark, and your choice of bolt guns. Love those vintage Model 700s and, of course, the old Model 70s. I do shoot lots of other types of guns for fun, now, but, even so, bolt guns are still my benchmark guns for performance.

[Ojaileveraction]

How about barrel life between the .243 and the .308?

[Ozarkridgerunner]

How about barrel life between the .243 and the .308?

I am definitely no expert on that. I'm sure factors such as rate of fire come in to some consideration. My .243 is a hunting rifle for me. I don't shoot a lot of rounds through it at the range. However that rifle is 40 years old and has fired hundreds of rounds and the bore is clean and shiny with sharp rifling , extremely accurate . My .308 is a black rifle , a FN FAL. I can safely say it has eaten thousands of rounds and is still very accurate also.

[ESquared]

With you on the bolt guns, Ozark, and your choice of bolt guns. Love those vintage Model 700s and, of course, the old Model 70s. I do shoot lots of other types of guns for fun, now, but, even so, bolt guns are still my benchmark guns for performance.

I agree with NCG there are a lot of excellent calibers out there in between the .243 and .308. And as was also mentioned, the 6 mm Rem is almost identical to the .243. We have two in Remington 700 models and love them. Spot on also on the .257 Roberts , NCG. My Dad now deer hunts primarily with that caliber in a Custom Remington 700 BDL. A tack driving , deer slaying machine.

Okay, to muddy the water, here, don't forget that there are a lot of other cartridges that fit between the 243 and the 308 afar as recoil and some offer better big game performance than the 243.

My favorite has always been the 257 Roberts. Recoil is on a par with the 243 and another great dual use cartridge. It was actually the original dual purpose varmint/deer cartridge and much loved by Jack O'Connor. Gets you into a little heavier 117 or 120 grain bullet for big game work. Really got mothballed, though, when the gun market writers hyped the 243 when it was introduced. Factory ammo, though, is harder to find and pricey, now. An old-timer friend of ours used to work for the DNR as a deer culler in areas where deer were a problem. He never used anything but his 257 Roberts Model 70 and literally shot hundreds of deer with it. Sweet shooting cartridge.

The 7mm-08 is another great in-between cartridge. Still less recoil than the 308, but not as good a varmint cartridge as the 243 as far as factory ammo selection. Very accurate, though.

You guys are making this very interesting, aren't you?

Not to play the fan-boy, but I'm particularly taken right now with the Long Ranger, so I haven't even thrown the caliber choices you note above into the mix, even though I'm sure they're all legitimate, fantastic choices! I love my lever actions and I've quickly become a Henry convert. And, my research on the Long Ranger has furthered my enthusiasm for the brand and this particular model.

But, just for grins, what current brands/models are candidates for a 257 Roberts round, or a 7mm-08 or the 6mm Rem? It's all new to me, so why not check it out, right?

And I thought I had it narrowed down...

I am going to be biased somewhat in my pick of rifle model and manufacturer. I prefer bolt guns for hunting. My picks are the older Model 700 Remington's and pre- 64 Winchester Model 70's. Tons of other great rifles out there though. .257 Roberts will be a bit harder to come by but if you find a rifle that you like in this caliber, snatch it up. You won't regret it. Not much experience with the '08 but a good caliber I hear. On the 6 mm , love that cartridge. Again my rifle of choice in that round is the 700 Remington. Good luck!!

So, in a nutshell, you all aren't drinking the Kool Aid when it comes to the claim that the Long Ranger design and mechanics lock up like a bolt action, but with the Henry lever-action package?

[Mistered]

The buzzkiller for me is the alloy receiver on the Long Ranger.
I am sure under normal use with factory ammo it will never have a problem but because of the alloy it will be inherently less strong than an all steel bolt action receiver regardless of the lockup.

[ESquared]

The buzzkiller for me is the alloy receiver on the Long Ranger.
I am sure under normal use with factory ammo it will never have a problem but because of the alloy it will be inherently less strong than an all steel bolt action receiver regardless of the lockup.

Hmmm, great observation. Wonder why they did that? Weight savings? Does it become a durability issue or is there some impact on reliability and/or accuracy, do you think?

[Ozarkridgerunner]

The buzzkiller for me is the alloy receiver on the Long Ranger.
I am sure under normal use with factory ammo it will never have a problem but because of the alloy it will be inherently less strong than an all steel bolt action receiver regardless of the lockup.

I would have to agree.

[Ozarkridgerunner]

I think the difference in the Long Ranger versus a top quality bolt gun in most hunting scenarios and shooting distances would be fairly small. The longer range shots is where the precision of the bolt rifle will shine , IMO.

[Mistered]

Wonder why they did that?

Cost - no other reason.

and/or accuracy, do you think?

What Ozark said:

The longer range shots is where the precision of the bolt rifle will shine , IMO.

Does it become a durability issue or is there some impact on reliability

In the LONG TERM yes but most never get there.
Got to a pawn shop or LGS that deals in used guns and look at all the alloy guns you can find. Mostly it will be shotguns (and some others such as 10-22s) but he bottom line is you will see greater wear and finish issues with the alloy receiver guns.

[220]

If you are purchasing it purely as a deer rifle I would go the 308, if it will be used for a bit of preditor work or any varminting as well then the 243 is the logical choice.
I run a 240wby as a do anything rifle and have to say it has proven to be the most versatile rifle I have ever owned. 2-300fps more velocity than a 243 has it almost matching the 308 for muzzle energy. 100gr nosler partitions have really impressed me with their performance. 3 one shot kills on our Aussie sambar which are comparable in size to elk. 55gr bullets at over 4100fps make it the equal of my swift in varminting situations, recoil is a bit more but still manageable for a 50 round or more session of stretch out work.

You can shoot deer with a 22cal and use 30cals for varminting but for me the window for true dual purpose rifles where they can do either as well as a dedicated rifle is small. I would say it starts around the 243 and ends with the 25-06.

[ESquared]

This is all great input and I want to thank you all again for all you've added to the conversation.

Maybe, for me, as of right now, it might all come down recoil and recoil management of the 308 vs. the 243, which, in the scheme of things, may be the lat thing to worry about.
The ballistics speak for themselves, and the 308 will obviously do everything the 243 will do, and more, should the day come that I need/want a longer shot or a bigger animal than the 243 will deal with.
But (and there's always a but) Is there validity to too big a round at too close a distance can end up "messing up the meat"? If so, that argues for the 243 for now, the 308 when/if the need arises. Or do you manage that with different 308 ammo, depending on conditions of the day?
I'm a 6'5", 260 lb ex-offensive tackle. What am I worried about? Fear of the unknown and being spoiled by a .357, I guess.
So, maybe it will translate in shotgun terms, when it comes to recoil. .308 = 12 gauge?
Nobody said this was going to be easy!

[Ozarkridgerunner]

If you are purchasing it purely as a deer rifle I would go the 308, if it will be used for a bit of preditor work or any varminting as well then the 243 is the logical choice.
I run a 240wby as a do anything rifle and have to say it has proven to be the most versatile rifle I have ever owned. 2-300fps more velocity than a 243 has it almost matching the 308 for muzzle energy. 100gr nosler partitions have really impressed me with their performance. 3 one shot kills on our Aussie sambar which are comparable in size to elk. 55gr bullets at over 4100fps make it the equal of my swift in varminting situations, recoil is a bit more but still manageable for a 50 round or more session of stretch out work.

You can shoot deer with a 22cal and use 30cals for varminting but for me the window for true dual purpose rifles where they can do either as well as a dedicated rifle is small. I would say it starts around the 243 and ends with the 25-06.

Good observations here as well. Sometimes choice of calibers and gun types gets to be like trucks. Chevy , Ford or Dodge ? Gas or diesel? 1/2 , 3/4 or 1 ton ? Economy or bells and whistles ? The 240 Wby is a great round. A man better have deep pockets if he plans on shooting it very much. Lots of considerations but I'm confident you'll find a caliber and rifle that suits your needs. The pursuit of the firearm can be mighty fun too.

[ESquared]

If you are purchasing it purely as a deer rifle I would go the 308, if it will be used for a bit of preditor work or any varminting as well then the 243 is the logical choice.
I run a 240wby as a do anything rifle and have to say it has proven to be the most versatile rifle I have ever owned. 2-300fps more velocity than a 243 has it almost matching the 308 for muzzle energy. 100gr nosler partitions have really impressed me with their performance. 3 one shot kills on our Aussie sambar which are comparable in size to elk. 55gr bullets at over 4100fps make it the equal of my swift in varminting situations, recoil is a bit more but still manageable for a 50 round or more session of stretch out work.

You can shoot deer with a 22cal and use 30cals for varminting but for me the window for true dual purpose rifles where they can do either as well as a dedicated rifle is small. I would say it starts around the 243 and ends with the 25-06.

Good observations here as well. Sometimes choice of calibers and gun types gets to be like trucks. Chevy , Ford or Dodge ? Gas or diesel? 1/2 , 3/4 or 1 ton ? Economy or bells and whistles ? The 240 Wby is a great round. A man better have deep pockets if he plans on shooting it very much. Lots of considerations but I'm confident you'll find a caliber and rifle that suits your needs. The pursuit of the firearm can be mighty fun too.

Exactly right, Ozark! There's just as much fun in the "hunt" for the right next firearm. Made even more so with folks like the members here who are so generous with their insights and experiences.
I'll figure it out. Maybe not soon, but I WILL figure it out.

[Ozarkridgerunner]

This is all great input and I want to thank you all again for all you've added to the conversation.

Maybe, for me, as of right now, it might all come down recoil and recoil management of the 308 vs. the 243, which, in the scheme of things, may be the lat thing to worry about.
The ballistics speak for themselves, and the 308 will obviously do everything the 243 will do, and more, should the day come that I need/want a longer shot or a bigger animal than the 243 will deal with.
But (and there's always a but) Is there validity to too big a round at too close a distance can end up "messing up the meat"? If so, that argues for the 243 for now, the 308 when/if the need arises. Or do you manage that with different 308 ammo, depending on conditions of the day?
I'm a 6'5", 260 lb ex-offensive tackle. What am I worried about? Fear of the unknown and being spoiled by a .357, I guess.
So, maybe it will translate in shotgun terms, when it comes to recoil. .308 = 12 gauge?
Nobody said this was going to be easy!

Sounds like you got plenty of frame to handle the recoil, ESquared! Terminal performance of the .243 on a deer is quite dramatic. If you want to save the front shoulder on a deer don't put a round in it. Damage is tremendous. But put it in the boiler room behind that shoulder and you'll mainly liquefy the internal organs. As to comparing the shotgun vs. 308 on recoil , I 'd say that depends. I think the way you feel it like a hard push compared to a quick jolt. Speaking from some experience, I've shot synthetic stocked 12 gauges in 3 1/2" chamber with extra full turkey chokes and heavy turkey loads and Ive shot .375 H&H Magnums in a heavy bolt gun. I will guarantee that I would rather shoot the .375 vs the 12 ga in that scenario! That configuration in a shotgun is very lethal on both ends.

[220]

I don't think size comes into it with recoil tolerance, have a mate that is 5'1" and lucky to be 110lbs. He hunts with big bores and shots them as well as anyone I have seen. He has a 416rigby 450 3 1/4NE 470NE that he alternated between as his deer rifles. Most have been customised for him with about 4" lopped of the barrel and 2" off the stock but I have seen him accidently fire both barrels on a 500NE. I would have been lying on the ground crying but he just stepped up and went again. Did the same thing the second time and called it a day.
There was a clip of it on youtube I will see if I can find a link.

If you are concerned about recoil then the 243 is probably the best option. Everyone shoots better with a rifle that is within their comfort level, a well placed shot from a 243 will kill better than a misplaced one from a 308.

[220]

I think this link should work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-yDHL_aYI

[ESquared]

This is all great input and I want to thank you all again for all you've added to the conversation.

Maybe, for me, as of right now, it might all come down recoil and recoil management of the 308 vs. the 243, which, in the scheme of things, may be the lat thing to worry about.
The ballistics speak for themselves, and the 308 will obviously do everything the 243 will do, and more, should the day come that I need/want a longer shot or a bigger animal than the 243 will deal with.
But (and there's always a but) Is there validity to too big a round at too close a distance can end up "messing up the meat"? If so, that argues for the 243 for now, the 308 when/if the need arises. Or do you manage that with different 308 ammo, depending on conditions of the day?
I'm a 6'5", 260 lb ex-offensive tackle. What am I worried about? Fear of the unknown and being spoiled by a .357, I guess.
So, maybe it will translate in shotgun terms, when it comes to recoil. .308 = 12 gauge?
Nobody said this was going to be easy!

Sounds like you got plenty of frame to handle the recoil, ESquared! Terminal performance of the .243 on a deer is quite dramatic. If you want to save the front shoulder on a deer don't put a round in it. Damage is tremendous. But put it in the boiler room behind that shoulder and you'll mainly liquefy the internal organs. As to comparing the shotgun vs. 308 on recoil , I 'd say that depends. I think the way you feel it like a hard push compared to a quick jolt. Speaking from some experience, I've shot synthetic stocked 12 gauges in 3 1/2" chamber with extra full turkey chokes and heavy turkey loads and Ive shot .375 H&H Magnums in a heavy bolt gun. I will guarantee that I would rather shoot the .375 vs the 12 ga in that scenario! That configuration in a shotgun is very lethal on both ends.

There's no wrong answer, is there? When it comes to shotgun comparisons, I remember shooting at clays growing up, with what I think was a 16 gauge, single shot, and we shot that thing over and over. The research I've done tells me that the calculated Recoil Energy of that gun was most likely comparable to the 308.
Gauge, length (oz. shot@MV) Gun weight (lbs.) Recoil energy (ft. lbs.)
.410 bore, 2.5" (1/2 at 1200) 5.5 7.1
.410 bore, 3" (11/16 at 1135) 5.5 10.5
28 gauge, 2.75" (3/4 at 1200) 6.0 12.8
20 gauge, 2.75" (7/8 at 1200) 6.5 16.1
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) 6.5 21.0
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1175) 6.5 25.0
20 gauge, 3" (1 1/4 at 1185) 6.5 31.0
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) 7.0 21.5
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1240) 7.0 27.6
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1180) 7.5 17.3
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1200) 7.5 23.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/4 at 1330) 7.5 32.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) 7.5 45.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 5/8 at 1280) 7.5 52.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 7/8 at 1210) 8.75 54.0
10 gauge, 3.5" (2 1/4 at 1210) 10.5 62.9

I remember, too, as an adult, patterning a 12 ga turkey gun and it was brutal.

[ESquared]

I don't think size comes into it with recoil tolerance, have a mate that is 5'1" and lucky to be 110lbs. He hunts with big bores and shots them as well as anyone I have seen. He has a 416rigby 450 3 1/4NE 470NE that he alternated between as his deer rifles. Most have been customised for him with about 4" lopped of the barrel and 2" off the stock but I have seen him accidently fire both barrels on a 500NE. I would have been lying on the ground crying but he just stepped up and went again. Did the same thing the second time and called it a day.
There was a clip of it on youtube I will see if I can find a link.

If you are concerned about recoil then the 243 is probably the best option. Everyone shoots better with a rifle that is within their comfort level, a well placed shot from a 243 will kill better than a misplaced one from a 308.

I'm leaning your way, 220, there's no need to get ahead of myself. Shot placement is everything in the debate we're having, and I share your belief that shot placement is facilitated by shooter confidence and familiarity and comfort with what the gun is going to do when it goes "boom."

I'll figure it out, but, in the meantime, thanks again for your help!