muzzel velocity-round accuracy 45-70

[Dadio63]

Hello everyone!
I’ve recently purchased a beautiful H010B (45-70) with the intention of using it for deer/boar hunting with my three sons.
After taking it to the range and getting battered by the 300g snhp factory ammo (Great Lakes ammo), I’ve been investigating recoil mitigation options.
I posted a thread concerning recoil on the centerfire page here, and received great input from the members here (I LOVE this site!).
I’ve implemented a couple of the suggstions I received, and am currently starting to reload my own rounds as another option to help with recoil (as well as cost per round).
This is where things start getting a little confusing. The Lee Loader lists a safe load using IMR4198 with a 350g fnsp, the Hornaday book lists a different powder weight for the same powder/projectile, and the 45-70 reloading manual (covers every load published by all the bullet manufacturors in the same book) lists different powder weights for the same projectile.
Kind of hard to determine what muzzel velocity (recoil) to expect when different data is presented for the same components.
I’ve read that around 1600fps is the sweet spot as far as accuracy is concerened, and that people load down as low as 1300fps for hunting loads. If I understand correctly, velocities above 1800fps are not as effective for hunting purposes as the round passes through without imparting its full energy in the animal, plus the added nefative effect of the extra recoil.
Having gone through all that, I dont own a chronograph for developing load data (yet), for the meantime, I will be using felt recoil as my gauge.
I have started with IMR4198, Hornaday 350g fnsp, CCI large rifle (#200) primers.
1st load: 39 grains
2nd load: 32 grains
I am looking for a third and fourth load to try, and will bring 10 rounds of each to the range for testing.
Hopefully one of you fine ladies and gents have a round you have come up with that works well for hunting purposes, without having to worry about knocking the fillings out of my teeth every time I send a round down range.
Thanks for any help you can offer!

[CT_Shooter]

Thanks for any help you can offer!

I only load for .357 magnum and .38 spl, so I can't actually address your question. But, I can tell you that what I like about Hornady's manual (I use the 9th edition) is that they literally test each load for every bullet/powder/primer combination that they publish using a real, identified firearm. I trust their data. I've even asked a question by email and received an immediate response from their CS. They are a great resource. I only wish their bullets didn't cost so much.

[JEBar]

if possible, fire a box off HSM Cowboy Action 45-70 ammo ..... specs in this link ====> https://hsmammunition.com/cowboy-action/ .... if you have a Cabela's in your area, they stock it .... in our Henry its extremely accurate and as hard as it may be to believe, its really pleasant to shoot ..... within its range, it will take down deer, boar and black bear .... if it works for you, then pattern your loads to similar specs

[Abnermal]

39 grains of IMR4198 with ANY bullet is going to be an attention getter! My pet load for just having fun with a 45-70 uses 32 grains of IMR4198 with a 405 Laser Cast for1350fps(chronoed). For low recoil I've heard good things about Trail Boss powder. I've got a couple pounds of it but haven't tried it yet.

[Dadio63]

[quote="Abnermal"]39 grains of IMR4198 with ANY bullet is going to be an attention getter![quote]

I was kind of afraid of that, even though that load was not at the top end of the charts. It did seem like a lot of powder. I’ll give them a try anyway, just to check the accuracy.

My Cabela’s is out of stock on the Cowboy Action ammo, so I will either have to order out a box from MidwayUSA (or other vendor) or just order out some 405 grain bullets and work off the charts for the uggested 1300fps loads.

Thanks everyone!

I will follow up with a range report the next time I am able to get free. (From stuff.....work,etc)

[220]

I use AR2207 with 340gr cast, it is sold as H4198 in the USA not exactly the same as IMR4198 but vey close
velocity out of my marlin was
29gr 1241fps
30gr 1262fps
31gr 1317fps
32gr 1371fps
Accuracy was 1-2" for 5 shot groups at 50y

Also tried Trailboss with the same projectile
15gr 1144fps
16gr 1204fps
Accuracy was 2-3" at 50y

For a comparison 67gr FFg produced 1214fps from my rifle. I have used this load to take smaller deer species here in Aus and it works well.

[Dadio63]

Thanks 220! That is helpful, I will give some of those loads a try.

[Ojaileveraction]

I use AR2207 with 340gr cast, it is sold as H4198 in the USA not exactly the same as IMR4198 but vey close
velocity out of my marlin was
29gr 1241fps
30gr 1262fps
31gr 1317fps
32gr 1371fps
Accuracy was 1-2" for 5 shot groups at 50y

Also tried Trailboss with the same projectile
15gr 1144fps
16gr 1204fps
Accuracy was 2-3" at 50y

For a comparison 67gr FFg produced 1214fps from my rifle. I have used this load to take smaller deer species here in Aus and it works well.

H4198 is my favorite powder for cast lead in 45-70 and 30-30.

[Slugnut]

I've always had very good accuracy results with any 300g bullets (Hornady, Speer, and Comb. Tech), using 40.5g of IMR 4198. (1775fps. 22" brl.). they all shot 1 ragged hole at 54yds. w/ bench & bags.

[Dadio63]

G’morning All,

I was able to slip off to the range yesterday to test my first batch of handloads for the 45-70.

I had some interesting results and would love to post some pictures for review and comments, but I have to admit to being technology challenged. I do not see an option for attachments.

I loaded three different powder weight loads (39g IMR4198, 32g IMR4198, and 28g IMR4198), each using the same brass, primer and projectile.

The 39g loads shot a 3 5/8” group (9 rounds). Point of aim = center of target. The group was centered 3” right and 1” high from the point of aim, at 100 yards. Using a Limbsaver recoil pad, the felt recoil was still quite brisk.

The 32g loads shot a 4 1/4” group (8 rounds). Point of aim = center of target, 6” hold over. The group was centered at the center of target, 1/2” high from the center of the target, at 100 yards. Using the Limbsaver recoil pad, felt recoil was noticeably less than the factory loads and the 39g loads.

The 28g loads shot a 3 5/8” group (7 rounds). Point of aim = center of target, 8” hold over. The group landed 1/2” right and 1/2” low from the center of the target, at 100 yards. Using the Limbsaver pad, felt recoil was very manageable.

I fired a couple factory rounds (Great Lakes, 300g jhp), as a comparison to each load. The recoil was very stout, even with the Limbsaver pad.

I have some 405g coated lead fn projectiles on the way, to try and duplicate the cowboy action round recoil as suggested by JEBar.

If anyone can offer some help, I will post the target photos for review. Thanks!

[Ozarkridgerunner]

Sure sounds like your going about it the right way. I'm not a hand loader but there are many folks here who have many years of experience and always eager to share what they know. Trying out various hand loads as well as factory loads is a good way to find that load that's right for your caliber and one that shoots specifically well in your gun. Good luck and I bet you will have some helpful information coming your way.

[JEBar]

If anyone can offer some help, I will post the target photos for review. Thanks!

posting pictures on this forum is pretty simple :

take your picture and save it to your computer using whatever picture processing program you like

when you get to where you are ready to post a picture, go to and click on the Post Reply button at the bottom of the screen

at the bottom of the area where you type your response, you will see "Options" and "Attachments" tabs

click on Attachments

move down to and click on "Add files"

when the window opens find the picture (file) on your computer

open the picture and upload it


NOTE ... if you upload more than one picture, they will appear in your post in reverse order (1st picture uploaded, last picture shown)

ANOTHER NOTE ... if you upload a picture from your phone it will often not be rotated correctly when it appears on the screen ... to make sure the picture is turned the way you want it, first upload it to your computer and then to the forum

[North Country Gal]

Not sure how much help this is, but my light little Contender Carbine with its 16.25" barrel loves the standard green box Remington 45-70 factory ammo, which pushes at 405 grain bullet at an advertised 1330 fps. I can easily do inch and a half at 50 yards with a 2.5x scope. More importantly, I can also shoot it without having it beat me up, plus it won't beat up my Contender frame, either. This factory round has been around long enough to have an outstanding record for hunting all manner of big game. The downside is that it's crazy expensive.

For me, shooting any 45-70 load, recoil really starts to bother me when velocities reach 1600fps. My point is that don't restrict yourself to that supposed 1600 fps as being the sweet spot for accuracy or even being necessary for hunting, for that matter.

[Mags]

If anyone can offer some help, I will post the target photos for review. Thanks!

ANOTHER NOTE ... if you upload a picture from your phone it will often not be rotated correctly when it appears on the screen ... to make sure the picture is turned the way you want it, first upload it to your computer and then to the forum

One more tip on using your cell phone camera. Hold your phone sideways with the cell phone home button on the right when taking a picture. Then upload to your computer and post to the forum (click 'place inline'). The picture should post in the correct orientation. Holding the cell phone in any other orientation, the picture will be rotated or upside down when posted and you'll need to use your photo app on your computer to fix and then repost to the forum. (see 'photo testing' topic in Hobbies/Photography).

[Dadio63]

6861B978-A337-4DFD-863F-5BB33669F4FC.jpeg (221.11 KiB) Viewed 3139 times

A4F854EB-C3A9-4D99-80CD-8FDAF6EE19F9.jpeg (253.4 KiB) Viewed 3139 times

F7401AD9-01F8-4714-B662-CDCA71E94476.jpeg (259.58 KiB) Viewed 3139 times

All shots taken at 100yds, from a rest with bags, 3-9x scope

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DBC3A93D-27D6-42E0-86FC-16F7301D31FE.jpeg (367.09 KiB) Viewed 3138 times

[Dadio63]

North Country Gal,
I have been reading up (customer reviews) on the Remington 405g 45-70...green box, excellent reviews..I might have to give it a try, just to compare. Was also checking the price...ouch..

[BigAl52]

I have the same rifle in CCH version. I love the brass but that brass but plate on the rifle you have is killer in the shoulder. Mine likes Reloader 7 with at same bullet you are using. Around 46 to 47 grains. Recoil isnt bad for a hunting load. When I shoot for fun I use 16 grains of universal clays its a great load. I havent had in luck with the 4198 as of yet in mine. I have had some good results with XMP 5744 and 3031. Al

[North Country Gal]

North Country Gal,
I have been reading up (customer reviews) on the Remington 405g 45-70...green box, excellent reviews..I might have to give it a try, just to compare. Was also checking the price...ouch..

What I love about that load is that it is just manageable for me in my little Contender, though I do use a slip on leather recoil pad and that does help. I also like the traditional aspect of this load. It's basically a modern edition of the original Trapdoor load, so tons of history behind it. All these 300 and 350 grain loads are relative newcomers, by comparison.

Thinking back, I've always had good luck with green box Remington loads in my traditional rifles. Usually not the hottest loads, around, but they shoot with good accuracy.

[Dadio63]

BigAl,
I love the brass, but you are 100% correct in that brass butt plate beats me to death...didn’t think that one through too well:-(.

North Country Gal,
I enjoy the historical aspect as well, and have to believe the 405g bullet will have some awesome knock down power while out hunting. I am excited to put together some different loads with the 405g and see how my Henry (and my shoulder:-) ) like it.

[Mags]

I didn't think about the brass at all. The butt plate hurts after awhile, but I wouldn't have thought it through before hand anyway. Like brass too much.