Chronograph testing with .44 Magnum Speer 200gr Gold Dot

[DAVIDF]

I tested a couple of loads yesterday with Speer's .44 Mag 200gr Gold Dot bullets. These are designed for .44 Special or low velocity lite recoiling .44 Mag loads. The velocity envelope for proper expansion is supposed to be 800fps to 1100fps. However, below 850fps expansion is probably iffy. This bullet works really well between 1000 to 1100fps. I wanted to develop two loads for defense. One specifically for my 3.75" barreled Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley that would produce between 1000 to 1050fps. The second would be a compromise that may work best in my Henry Big Boy Classic with a 20" barrel, but also have enough velocity to perform good in the Bisley. I hand weighed each charge with my Lee scale. I had loaded these rounds prior to discovering that this scale is very inaccurate and instead of being within +/- 0.1 grains, it is probably closer to +/- 0.3 grains. Fortunately, these loads are well away from max pressure. Both of these loads use Red Dot powder, WLP primers, and Starline Brass. They were lightly crimped in the crimp groove with an OAL of 1.61".

The first load is with 6.8gr of Red Dot.

Bisley

1 - 884
2 - 908
3 - 919
4 - 915
5 - 927
AV - 910
ES - 43
SD - 16

Henry

1 - 931
2 - 981
3 - 1002
4 - 996
5 - 1008
AV - 983
ES - 77
SD - 31

ES and SD were not good with these, particularly with the Henry. Could be the inaccurate scale or could be that this is not the best combination of components at that powder charge. The good part is that the difference in velocity between the Bisley and Henry is pretty small. So, I can increase the velocity in the Bisley without driving the bullet too fast out of the Henry. I have some loaded with 7.2gr of Red Dot that I did not test. They may end up being pretty close to a perfect compromise.

The second load is with 8.2gr of Red Dot. This one is intended for the Bisley.

Bisley

1 - 1024
2 - 1003
3 - 1063
4 - 1050
5 - 1036
AV - 1035
ES - 60
SD - 23

Henry

1- 1187
2 - 1174
3 - 1169
4 - 1170
5 - 1184
AV - 1176
ES - 18
SD - 8

ES and SD was not good in the Bisley but very satisfactory in the Henry despite my lousy scale. I may have gotten lucky and chose five rounds where the scale actually worked correctly. Too bad that this is probably a bit too fast for the best bullet performance out of the Henry. But, Gold Dots are pretty tough and sometimes when driven fast they get mangled pretty good but shed an insignificant amount of weight.

Both of these loads have been accurate at close range, 15 yards or so, despite horrible ES and SD with some. I have not tested them at longer range. I'll wait to get a good scale first as it is probably pointless at this time. Both have been extremely soft shooting as well. The 6.8gr load feels like almost no recoil out of the Henry, yet the bullet would work quite well at that velocity.

I love having a load that works great in both my revolvers and my Henry. These results look promising so far, at least as far as velocity. I think a charge of 7.2gr to 7.6gr will be the perfect compromise as long as I can get good accuracy.

[JEBar]

I'm looking forward to your reports as to their effective range

[DAVIDF]

I pulled up a ballistics calculator. If I use a muzzle velocity of 1050fps and the ballistic coefficient that Speer claims of 0.145, and plugging in typical Florida atmospheric conditions (80 degrees, 80% humidity) velocity would be 850fps at 180 yards. That is still within the velocities that it will expand ok. At 100 yards velocity would still be 922 fps. Plenty fast for it to work well. It will be interesting to test it at 100 yards for accuracy once I get a good scale.

[JEBar]

interesting indeed .... looking forward to reports on your continued research

[Squatch]

Interesting. I like shooting 44 mags in that range. I have worked up several light loads that work well around 1,100fps.

Same for the 45/70.

[JEBar]

I've pretty much come full circle with ammo for our Henry 44 Mag but not so much with our 45-70 ....historically, I've been a proponent of the practice with what you hunt with line of thinking .... with both our Henry and Ruger Redhawk 44 Mags, our hunting round has been and so far as I'm concerned will continue to be centered around using a Nosler 240 gr JHP ..... a while back I tried to switch to lead bullets with lower powder charges and frankly, that ain't for me .... on the ranges I frequent, I really enjoy firing at 75 to 125 yards .... the drop of the lead bullets is more than I am willing to put up with .... I have no interest in having to adjust scopes depending what ammo I'm using .... once the lead bullets I have on hand are gone, I hope there won't be any more .... the recoil from full power hunting loads fired from our Redhawk is much different than that from our Henry .... as to our 45-70, the jury is still out .... the difference in recoil from hunting level and cowboy action level ammo is considerable .... my hunch is that once hunting level loads (I anticipate 3) I won't be firing the 45-70 anywhere near as often as I will the 44 Mag .... with that being the case, I really don't have much use for cowboy action loads

[DAVIDF]

I love light loads out of the Big Boy and my Super Blackhawks. And I see your point about having to go back and forth with adjusting sights. I would like to develop one light load that is capable of doing anything I will want to with my Henry and Super Blackhawks. But one of the requirements is that it also be economical. If the price were not a consideration, I would have probably already settled on the WFNGC 250gr bullet from Beartooth. At $31 per 100 that one is out of the question. I intend on trying Penn Bullets 245gr Thunder Head. http://www.pennbulIets.com/44/44-caliber.html. I have spoken with Bob Palermo and a few have tried the .45 version in the lever guns and they were able to get them to cycle/feed ok. He hasn't received any feedback with the .44 version. If I can get them to feed well in my Henry and get good accuracy, then that would be a do all bullet for my purposes. Unless I get into cowboy action shooting The RNFP bullets I have been using feed so smoothly and I don't expect these to feed really well, but it is worth a shot. That super wide meplat of about .424" would make a great hunting bullet.

Once I settle on one bullet and one load, I will file on the riser of the rear sight so that I know exactly which notch to use for each distance. There is quite a bit of change in trajectory for each notch and these slow moving loads have quite a bit of drop between 50 and 100 yards.

Squatch, around 1100fps seems to work really well with plated bullets and the Henry. The cast seem to do better with a bit more velocity in my limited experience with different powder charges. I need to use such a lite charge of Red Dot to keep a 200gr cast bullet near 1100fps that I am not sure that it will work well with the components I am using. A lot of soot on the exterior of the Starline brass already with a 6.8gr charge and I would have to go down to probably 6.0gr to 6.5gr to keep it near 1100.

[JEBar]

well understood on $$$$ being a factor, it is for me as well .... the thing that has helped me is finding a cheaper (19 cents each) source of Nosler 240 gr JHP bullets (first link below) ... that places the difference of only 3 cents between the Nolser JHP's and Cabela's 16 cents each for Oregon Trail cast 240 gr bullets .... for me the advantages of firing jacketed bullets makes 3 cents something I can live with .... when I need to restock, I'll probably order from Rose Distribution (second link below) has 240 gr jacketed bullets available in bulk packs for just under 14 cents each


http://www.shootersproshop.com/nosler-p ... 100ct.html

http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mv ... =ZBJ-44MAG

[DAVIDF]

Thanks for the links. They had some Nosler 10mm bullets really cheap that I was thinking about. They don't have them as cheap now. I'll have to keep checking.

Now you've given me another option with the Zero bullets. That is not as cheap as Penn's 200gr RNFP, but cheaper than the Thunder Head. Might be really good accuracy with them sized at .431.

[JEBar]

we use the heck out of 158 gr 357 bullets from Rose, still have a couple of thousand in our storage area .... in our Henry 357 and Ruger GP100's they fire identically to Nosler's 158 JHP's

[Squatch]

Yep the plated bullets in the same weight and charge seem to fly a bit slower than lead or coated for me as well.

I've been pretty happy with both the lead and coated bullets from Missouri Bullet Company. I've bought in bulk so that keeps the cost down. Nothing custom sized just the off the shelf 18 BHN. No leading issues either.

If you get the chance try some Trail Boss powder. Very clean and consistent though it is a little pricey.

Having a chrono sure is nice isn't it? Nice to know what's really coming out of your barrel.

[DAVIDF]

Yeah, the chrono has been fun. I talked to the owner of Missouri a year and a half ago or so. He was planning on having some dies built so he could size to .432. He suggested that I call him back in about a month. When I called him back he told me that had all fallen apart or changed and he wasn't going to be able to size any at .432. I may still give them a try. I have heard nothing but good stuff about Trail Boss, except the price as you mention.

[DAVIDF]

Yep the plated bullets in the same weight and charge seem to fly a bit slower than lead or coated for me as well.

I've been pretty happy with both the lead and coated bullets from Missouri Bullet Company. I've bought in bulk so that keeps the cost down. Nothing custom sized just the off the shelf 18 BHN. No leading issues either.

If you get the chance try some Trail Boss powder. Very clean and consistent though it is a little pricey.

Having a chrono sure is nice isn't it? Nice to know what's really coming out of your barrel.

Well, I just called Missouri Bullets Company and was very pleasantly surprised. I spoke to an extremely pleasant lady who informed me that they are now sizing some of their 44 bullets at .432 diameter. They are special order of course, but they had some leftovers of a few different 44 bullets from previous special order runs. They had 4 boxes of 500 of their 240gr RNFP 18 Brinnel Hi-Tek coated sized at .432 on the shelf. I ordered 3 of those boxes since that is the most that would fit in the flat rate box. http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &keywords=

These will be great to try. They are shipping today and I'll post my results as soon as I test them.

[Squatch]

Great stuff. I need to slug the barrels of my 44's and 45/70. but so far the off the shelf MBC have worked fine. If the hardness is right for your load they should seal OK as long as they are close. i've had no leading problems with the MBC bullets coated or plain lead. All are 18 bhn and I've loaded them as low as 750 fps. As high as 1,400 fps.

They also have a nice cannalure. Makes for a nice crimp with my RCBS dies.
After reading about RCBS cowboy dies for lead bullets I called them. The only difference in the dies other than looks is the cowboy sets have a larger .430 vs .429 expanding die. They sent me the larger lead expanding plug for both my 44 mag set and my 45/70 for free. That's the only one I've used so far. The lead and coated bullets fit nice in the case with no scraping of the bullet.

I'll probably buy a 44 special die set this winter. I have a boatload of used 44 spl brass. That way I can leave that die set adjusted and don't have to always be adjusting my Mag die set.

[DAVIDF]

Nice, I don't plan on going as low as 750. Probably between 900 and 975 out of my short barreled Bisley and I am guessing 1100 to 1200 out of the Henry. I'll try some with a charge of around 7.1gr of Red Dot using a Lee powder scoop. I am using the powder scoop until I get a good scale since my current scale is so bad. Those should be around 950 or a bit higher out of the Bisley.

[Squatch]

I have a digital scale I use to double check stuff. It's handy but tends to wander after it's been on a while.

I actually really like my RCBS beams scale that came with my reloading kit. Very accurate. I find the trick is to set it near eye level so you aren't fighting angle to see the pointer. The RCBS powder trickler with base sets over the pan nicely. I drop most charges just a tad light and finish them off with the trickler and scale. One at a time is fine for me. I'm in no hurry. I find the slow concentration of reloading to be luxurious therapy. It has helped immensely getting back the focus that working a frantic high tech job tried to ruin. It's the exact opposite of multi tasking and should be!

[JEBar]

I used to obsess with powder charges but have come to realize that at the distances I shoot, a powder charge that is off by a piece of a grain of powder makes no difference .... don't get me wrong, being exact is good but in my world, it is no longer critical

[DAVIDF]

The problem is my scale is off by .3gr either direction. The used tuned scale I have on order will be sensitive to one kernel of powder. It will also be significantly easier to use than my current scale that is not magnetically dampened very well.

I like to do exactly what you do Squatch, drop a slightly light powder charge and use a powder trickler. Slow reloading is enjoyable, not a chore! I work from home a lot of days and I can take a break and do a little at a time.

[DAVIDF]

I chronographed an additional 200 gr. .44 Gold Dot load yesterday from my 3 3/4" barreled Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley and my 20" barreled Henry Big Boy Classic. This Gold Dot is meant for .44 Special and lite .44 Magnum loads. It performs really well at above 1000fps and velocity should be limited to 1100fps. Speer claims it expands at 800fps but some tests have found that it does not. Above 850 or so, it should expand reliably.

I used Starline brass, WLP primers, and 7.2gr of Red Dot. The scale I used is a Lee that is not reliable. It can be off by about .3gr. OAL was 1.61" with a light crimp. Measurements were take from 15' and temperature was in the low 60's.

Bisley

1 - 943
2 - 971
3 - 978
4 - 969
5 - 960

H - 978
L - 943
AV - 964
ES - 35
SD - 13

Henry

1 - 1035
2 - 1039
3 - 1048
4 - 1059
5 - 1039

H - 1059
L - 1035
AV - 1044
ES - 24
SD - 9

I have not tested this load for accuracy from longer distances. At 15 yards it seems to be accurate out of both the rifle and revolver. Velocity of this load is perfect out of the rifle. At those velocities, it performs as well as any of the duty caliber pistol loads and perhaps as well as any 10mm loads. From the revolver, it is still has enough velocity to expand well.

This could be an excellent defensive load for someone who wants both a quiet and lite recoiling load for use out of a revolver and a rifle. It is very quiet from the rifle since it is still subsonic.