45-70 range report

[JEBar]

with Buffalo Bore charging $81.32 for a box of 20 of their 45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo - 500 gr. FMJ-FN --- https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l ... tail&p=154 --- I seriously doubt I'll ever run one through our Henry .... I have started looking for some 500 grain bullets to hand load, right now I'm considering a box of 50 Hornady InterBond Bullets 45 Caliber (458 Diameter) 500 Grain Round Nose bullets --- http://www.midwayusa.com/product/928148 ... -box-of-50 --- the reality is, 50 of them would last me longer than I'll be around to load them

[PT7]

Looks like yours is shooting pretty well. I need to get the Skinner sight mounted on mine. That recoil pad makes those long range days more pleasant. The brass ones don't have that.

I've shot the HSM's. Not bad shooting at all. Buffalo bore is a whole 'nother story. Their specialty is HOT HEAVY rounds. +P+ in every caliber. A lot of their loads are Ruger only.

I don't quite understand what you mean regarding Buffalo Bore ammo in your very last sentence?

[JEBar]

Looks like yours is shooting pretty well. I need to get the Skinner sight mounted on mine. That recoil pad makes those long range days more pleasant. The brass ones don't have that.

I've shot the HSM's. Not bad shooting at all. Buffalo bore is a whole 'nother story. Their specialty is HOT HEAVY rounds. +P+ in every caliber. A lot of their loads are Ruger only.

I don't quite understand what you mean regarding Buffalo Bore ammo in your very last sentence?

I've learned that load recommendations for a 45-70 are controlled by several levels of firearms that are currently in use .... the original Trap Door Springfields can't handle anywhere near the powder charge of what has become known as that for lever action rifles .... the Marlin 1895 has become the standard, Henry builds its 45-70's to the same standard .... the strongest 45-70 actions are found in the Ruger #1 .... their shells can be loaded to much higher pressures than those used in lever actions

[Travlin]

Will your rifle feed 500 grain loads? I know most Marlins won't unless the bullet is seated deeper than normal.

[JEBar]

Will your rifle feed 500 grain loads? I know most Marlins won't unless the bullet is seated deeper than normal.

excellent question to which I have no answer ..... I do know it feeds 405 grain'ers with ease .... my inclination is once I find a bullet I like to contact the manufacture for advice

[Travlin]

I think that the O.A.L. is the important dimension. So 405 grain factory loads will feed in just about any levergun. However the 500 grain slugs have a lot more lead in front of the crimp. I think some of the reloading manuals like THE LYMAN CAST BULLET HANDBOOK have some info about this. A call to H.R.A. would give you the answer if there is no mention of it in the instruction manual.

[JEBar]

I think that the O.A.L. is the important dimension. So 405 grain factory loads will feed in just about any levergun. However the 500 grain slugs have a lot more lead in front of the crimp. I think some of the reloading manuals like THE LYMAN CAST BULLET HANDBOOK have some info about this. A call to H.R.A. would give you the answer if there is no mention of it in the instruction manual.

good suggestions .... if/when I decide to get serious about loading 500+ grain'ers I'm sure your suggestions will come in handy .... right now I'm more interested in substantially cutting bullet weight .... it doesn't take 400 grain bullets to punch a hole in paper .... in addition, less power will be needed and recoil should be reduced

[Frank V]

Looks like yours is shooting pretty well. I need to get the Skinner sight mounted on mine. That recoil pad makes those long range days more pleasant. The brass ones don't have that.

I've shot the HSM's. Not bad shooting at all. Buffalo bore is a whole 'nother story. Their specialty is HOT HEAVY rounds. +P+ in every caliber. A lot of their loads are Ruger only.

You could use a slip on recoil pad for the range then take it off for everyday use. I've done that before or a Past slip on recoil pad that you can put on over your shirt or even jacket, they are pretty nice.

[JEBar]

I'm glad that Henry offers their center fires with and without a recoil pad .... for us, an OEM pad is a major plus .... removable pads are certainly an option but we prefer permanent mounted ones

[JEBar]

I think that the O.A.L. is the important dimension. So 405 grain factory loads will feed in just about any levergun. However the 500 grain slugs have a lot more lead in front of the crimp. I think some of the reloading manuals like THE LYMAN CAST BULLET HANDBOOK have some info about this. A call to H.R.A. would give you the answer if there is no mention of it in the instruction manual.

did some checking and per Buffalo Bore's website https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l ... tail&p=154 , their 500 grain :

"Our 45-70 ammunition is externally identical to SAAMI spec 45-70 ammo,"

further :

"Its use should be limited to the following firearms:
All Marlin 1895 (1895 Marlins are all model 336 actions, chambered in 45-70) iterations made since 1972, all Browning 1885 and 1886 copies, Rossi Rio Grande, New England Arms Handi Rifle, T/C Encore, ALL falling block actions made of modern steel such as Ruger #1 and #3, Shiloh, Christian and Pedersoli Sharps, Henry Lever Action Rifles, all Winchester 1886 iterations made since 1915 and all Siamese Mauser bolt actions."


I read that to mean that the outer length is the same .... to achieve this them must seat the bullet deeper into the shell ....with that being the case and they specifically list it being for Henry Lever Action Rifles, it should work

[Frank V]

Will your rifle feed 500 grain loads? I know most Marlins won't unless the bullet is seated deeper than normal.

You will have to seat a 500gr bullet deeper to function through the Marlin & probably the Henry too.
The 500gr Hornaday JSPs he shows are for the .458 Win Mag. I've shot a lot of them through the .458.
I'd be surprised if they open up at .45-70 velocities, but they would surely penetrate. Might be a great bullet for Bears.
You'd have to seat them deeper & greatly reduce your loads to start with. Maybe use trapdoor data to start?

[JEBar]

Will your rifle feed 500 grain loads? I know most Marlins won't unless the bullet is seated deeper than normal.

You will have to seat a 500gr bullet deeper to function through the Marlin & probably the Henry too.
The 500gr Hornaday JSPs he shows are for the .458 Win Mag. I've shot a lot of them through the .458.
I'd be surprised if they open up at .45-70 velocities, but they would surely penetrate. Might be a great bullet for Bears.
You'd have to seat them deeper & greatly reduce your loads to start with. Maybe use trapdoor data to start?

again from Buffalo Bore's website : "This bullet is a solid and won't mushroom and thus will penetrate 5 to 6 feet in muscle and bone." .... I can't think of any critter I'm even remotely likely to hunt that needs a bullet that will penetrate 5 to 6 feet in muscle and bone .. .. even so, it would be nice to have a few rounds of such ammo that is capable of doing so .. .. talk about conversation pieces ..

[Travlin]

Maybe if you could get two or three of them to stand in line one behind the other one shot would do it. Better make it early in the morning as it would take the rest of the day skinning etc.

[Squatch]

So far I've shot a few light handloads with the Missouri Bullet company coated 300 gr and 405 gr bullets. Pushed by a light load of Unique powder. Same load for each weight. I haven't Chrono'ed them yet but should be around 1,000fps. Recoil is about the same as .44 mag in my Big Boy. I could shoot these all day. I have 60 more loaded and intend to really test them next week.

[Squatch]

Looks like yours is shooting pretty well. I need to get the Skinner sight mounted on mine. That recoil pad makes those long range days more pleasant. The brass ones don't have that.

I've shot the HSM's. Not bad shooting at all. Buffalo bore is a whole 'nother story. Their specialty is HOT HEAVY rounds. +P+ in every caliber. A lot of their loads are Ruger only.

I don't quite understand what you mean regarding Buffalo Bore ammo in your very last sentence?

I wasn't speaking specifically of the Buffalo Bore 45/70's. Just their ammo in general. They are known for making heavy hunting rounds. Many of which come with warnings that they only be shot in Ruger and Freedom Arms type revolvers. The hottest loading info for the 45/70 in several of my loading manuals says the same thing. Only safe to shoot in Ruger #1 rifle and similar. So I assumed that Buffalo Bore made a similar for the 45/70. I haven't checked lately. Most of their ammo is a little spendy for me. Nor do I have a need for that level of performance.

[PT7]

Thanks, Squatch....I get what you mean now. I had a little personal experience with the Buffalo Bore ammo in my revolver a couple of years ago, and somewhat forgot about it when I read your comment.

Back then I was considering using my Ruger SP101 4.2" revolver for deer hunting. I contacted a fellow who has an internet business and evaluates firearms. He extensively uses Buffalo Bore ammo. I asked him what he would recommend in Buffalo Bore ammo to use for deer hunting. He suggested BUFFALO-BARNES LEAD-FREE HEAVY 357 Mag 140 gr. XPB @ 1550 fps. I bought a 20-round box (yes, it is spendy ammo) and test shot some rounds at a target from the actual deer blind I hunt from. My thoughts were that the 140 gr. round would be just fine, as I've shot stout 158 gr rounds at times. Boy, was I ever wrong. The first shot almost took the revolver away from me!

After that testing, I went to the Buffalo Bore web site and read a brief press release that was written for this ammo, including some velocities out of specific guns. Although my SP101 is not listed, I think it would mostly align with the S&W MT Gun with 4" barrel. I should have read this release before trying the ammo -- I might have been more prepared! As you said "Their specialty is HOT HEAVY rounds. +P+ in every caliber." You're spot on -- I can testify to that!

Thanks for getting back on this.


Just for an interesting read, here's the press release (the underlining is mine), and a picture of the ammo I shot:

For those wanting/needing a lead-free, HEAVY 357 Magnum load, generating full power plus, here it is.

Hunting ammo for SP101 or Henry Big Boy

Below are real world velocities taken from personal stock guns. The industry-established use of long laboratory test barrels that give false high velocity readings is essentially misleading to the public who won’t be firing the ammo from a laboratory test barrel in the real world, where it matters.

➤ 1947 fps—Marlin mod 1894, 18 inch barrel
➤ 1518 fps—S&W mod 27, 5 inch barrel
➤ 1519 fps—S&W MT Gun, 4 inch barrel
➤ 1436 fps—S&W mod 66, 3 inch barrel
➤ 1385 fps—S&W mod 66, 2.5 inch barrel

Due to the long-for-weight all copper bullet, the 357 does not have the case capacity to use a bulky flash retarded powder and thus there is a noticeable muzzle flash with this load in all the test revolvers, however the rifle shows no flash at all due to its longer barrel.

This load is the typical barn-burning, turbo charged, Buffalo Bore type HEAVY 357 Mag. load and as such, should only be used in revolvers made of all steel. It should not be fired in light weight, alloy framed or cylindered revolvers. Feel free to use it in ANY/ALL 357 mag. chambered rifles and all steel revolvers/handguns.[/i]

[Frank V]

I have only shot Buffalo Bore ammo in the 9mm & .38 Special, but in both guns chronographed velocity exceeded factory listings.
I like it in those two & have no reason to believe it wouldn't be liked in the .45-70 too

[JEBar]

updated range reports .... earlier today I took our 45-70 back to Jay Henges shooting park .... the results can be seen below .... 12 rounds fired from a bench rest, in 3 4-shot groups, at 75 yards .... next time we go out, I plan to move back to 100 yards

[PT7]

Very good groups...excellent shooting.
I'd bet your 100-yard target will be shredded the same way.

BTW, it would be nice if you could "carry home" a couple of booths and yardages from Jay Henges, wouldn't it?!? I'm sure glad you're able to spend some time there. Enjoy.

[CT_Shooter]

Excellent shooting, JEBar! Thanks for the report and pictures.