45-70 load development

[JEBar]

DISCLAIMER : routinely, my absolute and final plans are subject to change at any second and usually do ..

every since buying our Henry CCH 45-70 I've researched the different loads I want to come up with .... 45-70 is a truly versatile and for me, intriguing, caliber .... with light loads it can be fun to fire in recreational shooting and in Cowboy Action settings .... loaded to the gills, it can and has taken all of Africa's big .... just to make it clear, I do not have any illusions that I will ever need it while hunting elephants, grizzlies, or any other such critters .... even with that being the case, my intention is to put together a series of loads that are capable of punching paper with minimal recoil to knocking down an elephant ....

1... for paper punching I project keeping 200 to 500 on hand :

I plan to load Oregon Trail 350 or 405 gr lead bullets ===>http://www.cabelas.com/product/Oregon-T ... ullets[url][/url] ... or Missouri Bullet Company lead bullets in the same size range ===> http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &keywords= .... most likely we will go with Oregon Trail because we can get them at Cabela's which saves shipping charges .... we have well over 2,000 on hand right now .... after those are gone the decision as to which to purchase will be governed mostly by cost, the cheaper the better


2... for hunting I project keeping 20 or so on hand :

I plan to load bullets of 3 different weights :

300 gr Combined Technology (CT) Ballistic Silvertip Bullet (a joint effort between Nosler and Winchester) ===> https://www.natchezss.com/nosler-ballis ... 50-ct.html .... we have a couple of hundred on hand

400 gr Barnes .45-70 Government Bullets Jacketed FN FB ===> https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product ... 6458844.do .... 200 on hand

500 gr Acme Bullet Co. Grain RNFP hard cast coated bullets ===> http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloa ... uct_id=446 .... 200 on order

[BigAl52]

Jim
I bought some Meister 350 grain bullets to give a try for plinking. I like the looks of them and the fact they had 2 larger grease grooves. Im taking a week off next week and me and the all Weather have some loads to test. I will let you know my findings. I have some loads with 5744 and IMR 4198. I also have some Berrys 350 copper coated to try. Hope I didnt casue you any anguish here forcing you to change ur mind. Al

[JEBar]

Jim
I bought some Meister 350 grain bullets to give a try for plinking. I like the looks of them and the fact they had 2 larger grease grooves. Im taking a week off next week and me and the all Weather have some loads to test. I will let you know my findings. I have some loads with 5744 and IMR 4198. I also have some Berrys 350 copper coated to try. Hope I didnt casue you any anguish here forcing you to change ur mind. Al

for paper punching have no preference and all recommendations are appreciated .... for those loads I may go with Unique or some other cheap, easy to find powder .... for hunting loads I plan to begin with IMR 4198 .... if it flat our doesn't work for our rifle, I have no clue what I'll try next .... for an additional level of hunting ammo, if anyone runs across any 600 grain'ers I'd sure like to hear about it

[JEBar]

shown below (left to right) .... Nosler 300 gr ballistic silver tip ---- 400 gr Barnes .45-70 Jacketed FN FB .... 500 gr Acme Bullet Co. Grain RNFP hard cast coated bullets

links related to above bullets found in opening post in this thread .... each of the 3 will be loaded to the Max .... should be interesting

[Ojaileveraction]

I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.
For Cowboy Action type loads
I found Lever Gun Performance helpful.
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I'm wondering most about the 500gr coated bullet. My research has cast doubt about a 500gr bullet fitting in a lever action.
Most of all it won't cycle through the magazine.
You may be able single load them but they won't fully extract. Had that happen to me with a bolt action 30-30 that I loaded using spitzer bullets.

[JEBar]

I had the same concerns and guess time will tell .... what I have been lead to believe is they can't make a jacketed 500 gr that will work but it is possible with a 500 gr solid lead bullet .... as best I can measure, the 500g is 1/8th of an inch longer than the 400g .... as of right now, I can't say if that will matter or not .... if they end up not being good for use in our Henry, I know they can be used in a Ruger #1

[JEBar]

I'm wondering most about the 500gr coated bullet. My research has cast doubt about a 500gr bullet fitting in a lever action.
Most of all it won't cycle through the magazine.

I'd love to be able to say I knew this all along but that wouldn't be the case .... take a look at the crimp ring on the (left to right) 300, 400, and 500 gr bullets shown below ....they are located on each bullet so that when crimped, the shell's OAL will be the same .... with that being the case, fitting in a lever action's magazine shouldn't be an issue .... the best loading data I've found for the 500 gr coated, cast bullet comes from RCBS as listed on page 40 in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the 45-70 Government" ===> https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Reloadi ... B004JOGNQS .... for Marlin Model 1896 Standards (which Henry has adopted) they list 4 different powders, for a 507g cast bullet .... since I have some on hand, I plan to start with IMR 4198 .... minimum load 30 g <muz vel 1254 fps> / maximum load 32 g <muz vel 1337 fps> .... over time I've come to highly respect RCBS .... I'm looking forward to getting some put together

[Ojaileveraction]

I missed that. Great info! Thanks.
The Picture is worth a thousand words itself.

[ssonb]

I am using a 225 gr .457 pistol bullet that is Powder coated that brings its dia. up to slightly above .458. With a load of 11.5 gr unique it pushes out at 1300 fps , These bullets print almost at the same POI as the 405 gr Oregon trail bullets traveling at 1325 at 75 yards. Out of my cch 45-70 there is almost no recoil. I suspect that these bullets in Cowboy action would be perfect.... The bullet is from a mold that is for the Ruger old army conical. Oh btw I have fired these loads with no filler in the case, and have found no deviation in performance from powder position.. as a matter of fact I need to cast ,coat and load a bunch more cause I shot them all up this weekend.

[JEBar]

preparations to begin reloading for our 45-70 continue .... the pictures below show them with a 30 caliber 180 grain spitzer bullet and a Nosler 44 caliber 240 grain JHP .... the pictures do not do justice to the real size and weight difference ..... I'm looking forward to getting some loaded and sent down range

[BigAl52]

Jim
Do you have any 3031 on hand and have you tried any of it? I went to the range yesterday with the all weather and no luck with 2 different bullets and 2 different powders. I used 4198 and 5744. I may be to low in the powder ranges that this gun may like. Im going to try again with more powder in the hole. Al

[JEBar]

no I haven't .... I'm still very early in this process, who knows where it will go once we get started .... right now the issue is, our equipment is scattered between 2 houses awaiting the finish of one of our son's new home where we plan to permanently setup our reloading .... for me, the interest in much of this process is more academic than practical .... HSM Cowboy Action and full power Bear loads work really well in our Henry .... I could easily adopt them for use and not need anything else .... on the reloading side, developing a load using the Nosler 300 gr Ballistic Silver Tip will give me all of the deer/boar/bear capable hunting ammo I will (realistically) ever need .... the 400 and 500 grain'ers are more of a recreational, academic exercise .... I purchased the 4198 because it came highly recommended from folks who know far more about it than I do .... if I can't come up with a load that I'm happy with, I have no problem trying something else .... I'm enjoying following your process

[JEBar]

in researching loading data for 500 grain cast bullets to be used in our 45-70, I ran across handloads.com .... one comment really caught my attention :

"This load kicks like nothing you have ever seen, but talk about penetration! Many times I have used it to shoot through tree trunks up to 10" in size, depending upon the type of wood. This is what I carry when I am walking in bear country for those poorly aimed self defense shots at an enraged sow with cubs. It will really take the fight out of them! "

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/defau ... er&Source=

I've got to load a few ..

[JEBar]

I spent a good portion of the morning loading 30 test 45-70 hunting level rounds .... as noted above, 300, 400, and 500 gr .... 10 of each, 3 minimum recommended powder charge, 3 mid level powder charge and 4 maximum powder charge .... in the picture below minimum charge marked with black, middle charge marked with blue ink, maximum not marked .... I hope to get out next week and test them .... plan to take the chrony and will be looking for the best group .... will be using the Lead Sled so as to eliminate as much human variation as possible

[Squatch]

I'm finding that I don't want to shoot anything in my 45/70 that travels over 1,500fps or so. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive but my joints are getting old. Most anything over that speed can end a day of shooting if the butt plate catches the old shoulder bone. Painful!

I love the hellacious Boom that goes with the 5744 loads I've done up lately. You can almost see the pressure wave roll down range. But I find when I keep the speeds down around 1,200 or less I can shoot a lot of rounds comfortably.

[JEBar]

I'm not particularly recoil sensitive but my joints are getting old. Most anything over that speed can end a day of shooting if the butt plate catches the old shoulder bone. Painful!

understood .... painfully all too well understood .... I have to take blood thinning meds and may well be on them for life ..... consequently, I bruise easy .... if I want to keep firing our 45-70 (which is one of my favorites) I have a limited number of options .... one was to load its ammo to sub Cowboy Action levels .... I do some of that but can't help but want to also fire some hard hitters .... to make that happen, over the last year, ours has undergone a series of mods that are designed to reduce felt recoil .... those mods include replacing the OEM recoil pad with the best offered by Kick-eez, had a Mercury Recoil Suppressor installed in the stock and had it Mag-na-ported .... that combination has worked wonders .... I'd rate its recoil using HSM Bear Loads as been on par with that of our Henry 44 Mag using factory 240 gr ammo .... I do plan to fire all 30 of the hunting loads mentioned above with our rifle mounted in a Caldwell Lead Sled which will handle the recoil .... once I find which loads work best, I will then fire some from a sandbag rest to determine how well I can handle the recoil .... as noted, I'm developing these rounds for big game hunting .... if/when they would be fired, hopefully it would be under one and done circumstances .... once they are developed, I plan to move on to coming up with a comfortable practice load

[Squatch]

I've been compiling some chrono data on different 45/70 loads. I hope to get it posted before long like I did 44 and 22.

I've been very pleased with the stuff I've been loading with Trailboss powder. The fill power is so high that small differences in load are just that. Very small. Makes for very consistent loads. Not unusual to shoot 4 rounds. See the time for the 1st. Then see the next 2 come in as duplicates. I shot 20 or so in a row with a total deviation between high and low of around 9 fps.

It's pretty fun shooting these slow loads for distance. Just gotta put some altitude in the rear sight! Pull the trigger and wait for the slap down range.

[JEBar]

It's pretty fun shooting these slow loads for distance. Just gotta put some altitude in the rear sight! Pull the trigger and wait for the slap down range.

amen .... a few years ago we took our Ruger Redhawk 44 mag out to a friend's farm in South Dakota .... he had a white 5 gallon plastic bucket that we setup at 300 yards .... to get a 240 gr 44 caliber bullet out there we had to lob the bullet in a mortar type trajectory .... I well remember pulling the trigger, lowering the Ruger and watching to see where the dirt would fly .... never did hit it but did come close a few times ..

[JEBar]

just got back from spending the morning testing the 45-70 hunting bullets mentioned above ..... biggest surprise, (first 3 pictures) at 35 yards the 500 gr Acme Bullet Co. Grain RNFP hard cast coated bullets tumbled unless loaded to the max .... I don't ever recall having a bullet to tumble like that .... I'm going to load 10 more to the max and will also try a different powder .... last picture shows a group of 3 max loaded Barnes Buster 400 g at 35 yards .... that appears to be a winner to me and I plan to put together more of them for further testing .... groups of the 300 grain Noslers were hands down the best .... regardless of load all 10 grouped within 2" of each other .... as of right now, Noslers will be our primary hunting round

[JEBar]

as noted above, the 300 gr Noslers all grouped well .... top picture shows 2 different powder charges .... second picture show the group for the highest powder charge .... I plan to tweak it and next time move back to 100 yards