Loose Dobermans in Public Park

[red ryder]

I just heard that a man and a woman were walking their leashed Shih Tzu in a public park in Cheyenne, Wyoming when two unleashed Doberman Pinschers attacked the Shih Tzu and ripped its neck open. The Shih Tzu required multiple stitches to treat the wound. I wonder what would happen if the Shih Tzu's owners had a handgun and used it on the Dobermans. It is illegal to discharge a gun in the city of Cheyenne. Of course it's also illegal to let your dogs run loose in Cheyenne. Any thoughts on this?

[Deadwood Dutch]

I probably am not qualified to comment but I'll give it a try. If the owner had a license to carry a firearm (as is required in Pa.) and HIS life was threatened then I would assume that he could discharge it in this situation. As far as the the owner of the two dogs he should really be in hot water. But if you have a LTCF in Cheyenne I would think you could use it there, otherwise what good is it? As far as shooting the dogs for attacking his dog, I would not know how the law would see this.

[BigAl52]

I don't think anyone knows what they would do until this happened to them. I have a conceal carry and I don't know if I could hold off from pulling mine out should this happen to me. Al

[red ryder]

Yes, it's a real dilemma. On the one hand your life is not in danger, but who knows what the loose dogs would do after they're done with the little dog. Although, unlike Pennsylvania (I lived in PA for 55 years), a permit is not required to carry (open or concealed) in Wyoming, I do have a CCW. Still, I hope I never have to face a situation like this. I just don't know what I'd do.

[PT7]

Interesting story, Red Ryder. I don't know if I would pull a handgun to protect my dog.....possibly so. Also don't know what's on the books, if anything, about using a firearm in such a situation. I can relate only a brief story of my encounter with some dogs.

A couple of years ago, one evening after dark, I was hiking over to the dumpster to deposit my trash bag. As I came back toward our apartment, an unleashed dog showed up (and sans owner, too), stop directly in front of me, and started snarling. Kind of tensed stance with head bent down like a bull ready to charge. Didn't look too promising at that moment. We do have a leash law here in KCMO, and this fellow was definitely on the other side of that law. BTW, he wasn't poodle-size, more of a lab-size.

I had my .22 Magnum revolver with me as an EDC. I didn't have to protect another pooch, but I had my hand on the revolver that night, and was ready to take the growler on. Had a bad experience with dogs once, which also motivated me to be ready for this one. When I was younger, I used to ride a bike to work. Coming home one evening, I drove past the last block of houses before a mile or so empty stretch heading toward my house in the country. Two boxers came out of nowhere, started chasing me, ripped at my leg, and pulled me down from the bike. I covered my head wondering how it would end up. Well, turns out they didn't like the bike....it wasn't me, so end of story. My jeans were ripped up, and I had some pretty good skin tears on hand and legs. Not much fun on that ride home.

This snarler here at the dumpster would not have fared well with that memory in mind. I was glad he decided to make a left turn at the corner and head elsewhere. Also very glad I didn't have to use my revolver....shooting w/in KCMO city limits is also a "no-no."

One never knows...

[red ryder]

We just ran into the manager of the county run shooting range. He is a retired Cheyenne police detective. I asked him the question and he too was puzzled as to what is the right thing to do. He said there is a leash law in Cheyenne. I told him the dobermans probably don't care about a leash law. He said if you were caught shooting a dog you would be in a heap of trouble. I sure don't know what is the right thing to do. Hate to say it, but short of lying (if no witnesses) dollar wise it would be best to let the dobermans kill your dog and buy another dog. Not something we would want to do to our beagle, who wouldn't hurt anyone.

[Henry88]

We just ran into the manager of the county run shooting range. He is a retired Cheyenne police detective. I asked him the question and he too was puzzled as to what is the right thing to do. He said there is a leash law in Cheyenne. I told him the dobermans probably don't care about a leash law. He said if you were caught shooting a dog you would be in a heap of trouble. I sure don't know what is the right thing to do. Hate to say it, but short of lying (if no witnesses) dollar wise it would be best to let the dobermans kill your dog and buy another dog. Not something we would want to do to our beagle, who wouldn't hurt anyone.

Problem with shooting the dog is, even if you're in the right, you're still gonna spend thousands on lawyers and countless hours in court.

Better to just stay away from town and dog parks with your dog.

The less time your dog spends with the carbon based units infesting the planet the better imho.

[red ryder]

Actually the air in Cheyenne is among the best in the country because of the Rocky Mountains and the wind, however we will not take our beagle to the park anymore.

[daytime dave]

I have pulled my edc handgun on a couple of dogs. My parents live in the country. A neighbor dog bounded out of the hedges as my father and I walked a field on his property. The dog was barking and advancing. I pulled out my 638 and advised the dog to calm down. (Like he would understand that). The dog's owner called it when he heard me talk to the dog. I'm not sure he saw my intentions or not.
The second time I was walking with the girlfriend at my parents along the road. As we walked past another neighbor's place, the usually leashed, tied out dog came down the driveway and into the road with it's teeth bared and making that I'm going to strike noise that precedes a bite. Out came my Kel-tec .32. We backed off to the opposite side of the road and the dog never crossed the center of the road.

Neither involved a pet, it was us endangered. In the northeast, I'd figure defending your pet would be justified if you had a CCW. You never know till it happens. My actions were fast, but only reaction to the initial aggression of the animals.

In fairness, I usually take pepper spray with me for dogs on a walk. It's legal to carry here. It works great. Mail delivery people use it all the time around here. My old neighborhood had the mailboxes up on the porch. Dogs don't like uniforms or people on their turf.

[red ryder]

Daytime Dave, I think pepper spray is the best idea. A gun is only going to get you in a world of legal trouble, which in the best case scenario, will cost you lots of money for an attorney and possible fines. There are times that I wonder if carrying a sidearm is a good idea considering the laws we now have. Over 25 years ago while taking NRA courses, the instructor said if a man is attacked, he is expected to "duke it out". If a woman is attacked (by a man), she has a better legal defense if she shoots her attacker than a man.

[PT7]

Problem well-solved. Thanks for the excellent suggestion, DD.

A pocket canister of pepper spray is the perfect solution. Doesn't mean the EDC necessarily be left home; but the p.s. is a lot less hassle after a dog encounter, if required to be used.

....I usually take pepper spray with me for dogs on a walk. It's legal to carry here. It works great. Mail delivery people use it all the time around here.

[red ryder]

I will make sure to leave the pepper spray near the leash and it will be used if threatened by a loose dog. It is an excellent idea and I thank you.

[BrokenolMarine]

I live in VA so my situation doesn't shed much light on this exact situation, different jurisdictions. However, here are two real world situations, we have first hand knowledge of that apply.

The first is the dog attacking your dog situation. One of our veterans in our charity group was walking his small dog when a pit bull charged out and attacked his leashed dog. The violent attack bloodied his dog and when he pulled on his leash to free/save his dog the pit turned toward him. He drew his 45 and shot the dog twice in the head, killing it instantly. The pit bull's owner came charging out and was screaming he would kill our veteran, until he pointed the 45 at him. They stayed in the street, just that way, until the police arrived.

Our vet followed the commands, his firearm was taken into evidence, his statement was taken along with other witness statements. The owner was arrested for the threat, obstruction and several other violations. The vet was released until court. When they got to court, the veteran's actions were upheld. The dog's owner was fined, given suspended sentences, and ordered to pay our veteran's vet bills. The court ordered the 45 returned to our guy immediately.

As for mace...

Responding on a complaint, I went to a porch door, and a shepherd came from the back yard and sat at the bottom of the steps staring at me. After leaving a note and my card, I started down the steps and the dog moved off to the side in that slinking position that can preclude a sudden attack. I spoke kindly to the dog, but he kept trying to circle behind me as I slowly walked toward my car. I slipped my mace off my belt and gave it a couple quick shakes. The dog kept circling... I kept turning to face him. The next time the dog cut in, I gave him a blast of mace... and he dropped into the grass skidding across the yard rubbing his face. He disappeared into the back yard. Everytime I drove by the property for the rest of the time I was assigned to that zone, if the dog was on the front porch, he would see my car and go in the back yard.

Mace works.

[biglever]

Well I know I wouldn't watch the, Dogs rip my dog apart
I don't pack a gun, but I always have a knife on me, and I would have used it.

[Hitman]

We have had problems with dogs killing chickens, cats, rabbits, going after our goats and even growling at me on our land.
The dogs never made it off of our property.

[DWD445]

Pepper spray is a good idea. Laws vary from state to state. I know in Ohio, if you discharge your firearm YOU had better be in a life threatening situation, the Doby attacking your dog is not enough. That being said, I would not watch my dog get killed. But he is a Pit
Depending on the situation, I would not want to shoot a dog or ever pull my gun, but....

[Sir Henry]

Wasn't it Will Rogers that said "shoot the owner not the dog"?

[GeoBoy]

I am with Dave on this one. The only difference is I would carry bear spray, it is perfectly legal.