Jacketed VS Coated VS Lead Cast

[JEBar]

I have no clue if I will ever have an opportunity to hunt for truly dangerous or very large game with our Henry 45-70 .... regardless, I'm going to buy 200 - 500 bullets to have on hand .... my question is, Jacketed, Coated or Lead Cast ???? .... I want to go with a 400+ grain bullet and am very much in research stage .... I've fired Missouri Bullet Company coated bullets in other calibers and really like their performance ===> http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &keywords= .... I've also fired their lead cast bullets ===> http://missouribullet.com/details.php?p ... &keywords= with equally good performance .... question : what if any difference does the coating make ?? .... when it comes to Jacketed, I simply haven't found a 400+ grain bullet I really like .... suggestions ???

[Squatch]

So far I have mainly used both the 300 and 405 grain MBC coated. I buy them in bulk. I've only pushed them to a bit over 1,000fps so far. But no leading or other issues at all. i have found weights to be very consistent. I think they can be pushed a bit hotter for sure. The only difference I've noted is POI because of the weights.

I recently loaded some of the same with and without the coating in 44mag. With price being close if they shoot the same I'd go for the coated just so you don't have sticky wax lube on your hands when loading. I weighed a few of the plain lead and found the weights seemed to vary a little more than the coated ones.

I have also Loaded and shot quite a few of the 350gr Berry's copper plated 45/70. These are NOT jacketed. Just plated. Berry's claim they can be pushed to 1,750 fps. i hope to try some like that soon over some Hodgden's 5744. I've found these to be accurate and very consistent in weight.

Once you get a feel for the crimp without a cannalure. The Berry's bullets are a pleasure to work with.

I also have a box of Hornady JHP's. I haven't tried them yet. I doubt I'll load much of anything in 45/70 over 1,800fps or so. I value my shoulder.

I have shot a couple of boxes of Winchester 300gr factory ammo. It's a nice load. Powerful but the recoil is more of a push than a punch like the Hornady Leverlutions. I find those accurate but unpleasant to shoot. Recoil is sharp! I need to check my notes. I'm not sure if I chrono'd either factory round. I wouldn't mind building something in 405gr than shoots with the power and no additional recoil of the Winchesters.

300gr MBC coated over 12 gr Unique at 50 yds. Very light recoil cowboy load.


same load 405's @50.


Same load Berry's 350gr plated @50


I'm heading to the bench shortly to load some 300 MBC over some Trail Boss for cowboy loads. I haven't tried this powder yet. When I have a batch of these done I'm going to try some different loads with the 5744. With this powder I should be able to up the speed a bit. I'd like to add a couple hundred FPS to the coated 405's and see how they do. Maybe even try a few of the Berry's plated at 1,500+.

I really want to find a nice cheap load. That doesn't have oppressive recoil. That I can keep on paper at 200yds with Skinner sights and my bad eyes.

Normal expander for jacketed is .458. I picked up a .459 M style expander die for lead bullets. Same one that comes in the fancy RCBS cowboy die sets. It has worked well. No messed up coating or plating and the fit is snug.

[JEBar]

great info, thanks for posting .... I've tried some Berry's plated bullets and they did well .... that's part of the problem I'm having .... we haven't found any factory or reloads that haven't shot well in our 45-70 .... granted, that's not a bad problem to have .... it appears that I need to pick a bullet and then fine tune with powder type and charge ... I really like the look of the Missouri Bullet Company coated bullets .... my deer hunting rounds have been settled, Nosler 300 grain Ballistic Silver Tips .... my practice ammo will be loaded from the bulk boxes that we have on hand and that will not be used for hunting ammo ....

[BigAl52]

I have used coated and cast in alot of my other guns. One thing the coating does is keep lead exposure down and at indoor ranges the coating doesnt smoke like the cast with lube does. Probably not a factor for you. Another thing about coated, care must be used when reloading so as not to damage the coating or you lose the lube the bullet needs to run thru the bore. Ive not yet tried Berrys in my 45-70 but I have used alot of there bullets in other pistols that I have. I also find that they can be bought much cheaper at other suppliers than direct from Berrys. I also use xtreme plated and Ranier. I really just let the gun tell me what it wants. I know you like the Noslers and are looking for a 400gr plus bullet. But if it was me and I was in search of a 400gr bullet I would give those Barnes Busters a serious look. Barnes bullets are really good. Im happy with the 350gr Hornady so thats what I am currently using. Al

[JEBar]

I know you like the Noslers and are looking for a 400gr plus bullet. But if it was me and I was in search of a 400gr bullet I would give those Barnes Busters a serious look. Barnes bullets are really good. Im happy with the 350gr Hornady so thats what I am currently using. Al

sadly, Nosler only offers 300 grain bullets for 45-70 .... if they offered a 405 grain bullet, I'd look no further.... consequently, I'm open to most any brand

[ditto1958]

I'm a traditionalist, so my inclination would be to go with 405 grain lead bullets.

[JEBar]

I'm a traditionalist, so my tendency would be to go with 405 grain lead bullets.

does Buffalo Bore use lead of jacketed bullets ??

[Squatch]

BB is probably too hot for lead. They do use Barnes copper stuff for a load in a lot of calibers.

I loaded up 50 of the MBC buffalo coated's this evening. Light loads.

25) 300gr over 15.5gr of Trail Boss. Should be near 1,200 fps

25) 405gr over 12.5 gr of trail boss. should be 1k fps.

[JEBar]

10-4 on Barnes Copper bullets .... I really like the look and info on the .45-70 400 gr Barnes Buster Bullets ===> http://www.barnesbullets.com/bullets/buster/ .... loading to a muzzle velocity around 2000 fps, they would be one heck of a round ===> https://www.loaddata.com/Cartridge/45-7 ... llets/5557 .... haven't been able to find any in stock, will most certainly keep checking

[clovishound]

I'm a traditionalist, so my tendency would be to go with 405 grain lead bullets.

does Buffalo Bore use lead of jacketed bullets ??

They sell both in 45-70 for lever guns.

[BigAl52]

Maybe you could give Barnes a call and see if they can locate any. Or at least they might tell you when they may be running more. I looked at several places I do business with and I found the same out of stock. Brownells will let you go on a notify when in stock list.

[JEBar]

Maybe you could give Barnes a call and see if they can locate any. Or at least they might tell you when they may be running more. I looked at several places I do business with and I found the same out of stock. Brownells will let you go on a notify when in stock list.

am considering doing just that .... there is no hurry, the reality is, nothing on the horizon indicates we will be doing anything but paper punching .... my interest in having a box of the dangerous game level Barnes bullets is just to have them "in case" .... our 300 WBY, 30-06, and 308 all use the same bullets .... if Nosler makes them, we have every type and most sizes on the shelf .... we've long been that way with most of the calibers we reload and I don't see that changing

[JEBar]

Maybe you could give Barnes a call and see if they can locate any. Or at least they might tell you when they may be running more. I looked at several places I do business with and I found the same out of stock. Brownells will let you go on a notify when in stock list.

suggestion appreciated .... I just sent them an email requesting availability info

[Steve51]

I use MBC coated and hard cast 405 grain bullets in my .45-70. I push them at 1400 fps and have had no leading problems. The only powder I have tried in the .45-70 is H-4198.

[Squatch]

I use MBC coated and hard cast 405 grain bullets in my .45-70. I push them at 1400 fps and have had no leading problems. The only powder I have tried in the .45-70 is H-4198.

That's great to know. I'm getting ready to build some loads in the speed range.

[JEBar]

Maybe you could give Barnes a call and see if they can locate any. Or at least they might tell you when they may be running more. I looked at several places I do business with and I found the same out of stock. Brownells will let you go on a notify when in stock list.

received the following email from Barnes this morning :

"Hello,

We are anticipating the release of the 30644 sometime in April. Midway USA and Cheaper than Dirt are good places to get them. See these links.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550668 ... -box-of-50

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product ... 6458844.do

Thanks, Ty"


I've never purchased anything from Cheaper Than Dirt .... I have signed up for their email notification when they get the Barnes 400 grain bullets in stock .... I plan to order 1 or 2 boxes .... we will burn some working up a load for our rifle .... the reality is I doubt I'll ever hunt any critter that demands this level of bullet but if that time should come we will be ready

[JEBar]

on Midway's site I came across the following comment about the Barnes at this link http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550668 ... -box-of-50

"Loaded over top of 54.5 grains of H-322 this bullet hits 2,012 fps out of my 22 inch barrel Marlin 1895. Used it to drop a cow elk in its tracks (lucky shot)! at 94 yards. Bullet was intact. I would not hesitate to take this bullet to Alaska. "


I also thought the following comment was funny while still communicating its message :

"i think this bullet could drop mount saint Hellenes ,just joking,its the best I've ever used in my 1895."


a solid 400 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of over 2,000 fps would carry a tremendous amount of energy .... I'd really like to see some penetration test .... the best I've found is a YouTube video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM4T4P5p7J0 ) of a 300 grainer with a muzzle velocity just under 2,000 fps .... to me the results were impressive

[BigAl52]

Ive only ever bought one or two items from Cheaper than Dirt and I dont remember what they even were. Most of the time there higher that what I have found through other suppliers. I do look at Powder Valley quite a bit when buying bullets as there prices are always good. I buy a few things at Midway but not very much. I think they charge to much for freight. Al

[JEBar]

I do look at Powder Valley quite a bit when buying bullets as there prices are always good. I buy a few things at Midway but not very much. I think they charge to much for freight. Al

never heard of Powder Valley, will look them up .... agree on Midway .... several times I've tried to purchase from them but when they figured shipping I deleted the order .... in our home area we have a Cabela's, a Bass Pro, a Gander Mountain, a Field and Stream, along with a Dick's Sporting Goods .... most of the reloading supplies we buy come from Bass or Cabela's .... by doing so, in most cases, we can avoid shipping charges

[DAVIDF]

JEBar,

Look at Beartooth's 405gr LFN GC or their 425 gr 425gr WLN GC. The 425gr has a nice wide meplat at .374, which they say is the widest that will reliably feed thru an 1895 Marlin or 1886 Winchester (they don't mention Henry's). The 405gr has a .310 meplat, so it may penetrate a bit deeper even though it is lighter. They will also size to various diameters for best accuracy. Their bullets are heat treated and have a fantastic reputation. Of course, they better as they are probably the most expensive cast. Still cheaper than the Barnes though.