Maximum Safe Pressure

[OldCorps]

I've just acquired a new Big Boy in 357 Magnum and am setting up to start reloading for it.

Does anyone have information concerning the maximum safe chamber pressure is for this rifle?

[clovishound]

According to a chart on Handloads, Sammi specs for .357 list a 35,000 PSI max.

As most of us have no way to measure chamber pressure with our loads, we must use the pressures listed in the data provided by the powder and bullet manufacturers. If you stay within the confines of published data, your pressures should be within the safe range. Of course, there is more to pressure than bullet weight and powder weight, so looking for over pressure signs when working up loads is part of the process.

[CT_Shooter]

Welcome to the forum from CT, OldCorps.

ClovisHound's advise is spot on. You might enjoy reading this online article, too.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/ ... rature.htm

Today most of the 357 magnum commercial ammo has been lowered in pressure into the high 30,000 psi levels.

[clovishound]

I got to thinking and looked at some loads listed in my Lee loading manual. Many had max pressures over 40,000 psi. Upon further research I discovered that in 1995 SAMMI lowered their .357 max pressure to 35,000 PSI. This was due to some problems S&W had with their K frame revolvers and higher pressure .357s. The older data was within specs when originally published. Newer data will fall within new SAMMI specs.

To add insult to injury, much of the older data was listed in CUP measurements. PSI is the norm today. The two are somewhat close, but not interchangeable. The change was made due to advances in the technology used to measure peak pressures.

Unfortunately virtually none of us have the technology available to measure chamber pressures for our loads. We must rely on following published data and working up new loads using standard techniques. Pressures can be inferred from muzzle velocities, the technology of which is readily available to us, but it is an inference, rather than a measurement.

Unfortunately, the pressure signs we look for are generally only present in pistol calibers, when we have greatly exceeded safe limits. Further, just because we got by with a load that didn't blow our weapon up, doesn't mean it will tolerate a steady diet of them.

I tend to be rather conservative when it comes to reloading. My daughter shoots my reloads, and I want her to be safe. I also prefer to go home with all my fingers. I tend to stick to middle of the range target loads. The exception is hunting loads. Even with those, I tend to back off a little from max.

[CT_Shooter]

I tend to be rather conservative when it comes to reloading. My daughter shoots my reloads, and I want her to be safe. I also prefer to go home with all my fingers. I tend to stick to middle of the range target loads. The exception is hunting loads. Even with those, I tend to back off a little from max.

I agree with your conservative approach, CH. Since the beginning, I've kept my .357 magnums in the middle to high middle range for revolvers, even though I also shoot them in my Big Boy. In my case, it's an effort to combine simplicity with a bit of practicality. I want an accurate load that I can shoot in both guns. There may be some accuracy differences from one to the other, but as an off hand shooter, I'm not such a consistent shot that I can tell.

[DWD445]

I'm with you guys also. Generally load near or at max load depending on type of powder. One good thing is with Dan Wessons, if the Henry will take it, the Dan will too !!
You have to drift WAY off the loading chart into dangerous waters to blow up a DW
I load 44Mag for both (my only Henry) and all work well in either.

I remember seeing in the old Dan Wesson loading data .445 SM 240g and H110, max load at 39.0g . New Hodgdon data lists max at 33.0g, I know how that feels and will pass on another 6.0g Pretty much, if your hand can take it the DW will too !!

[JEBar]

I've just acquired a new Big Boy in 357 Magnum and am setting up to start reloading for it.

glad to have you join us, looking forward to exchanging info .... please consider going to this thread ===> http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... &start=100 and adding your Henry rifles to our community total

[OldCorps]

Thanks for the welcomes and information. I guess I could have been a bit more detailed with my request.
I've been shooting all my life—well, at least 70-years of it, since I got my first Daisy Red Ryder when I was 8-years-old. I started whining for one before I was six but my mama was determined I'd "shoot my eye out" and it took me another year to scrounge up enough money gathering up soda bottles, at 2-cents deposit each, before I could buy my own. She wasn't happy. Two-years later, my ol' man gave me his Stevens 12-ga double barrel and took me out to the woods to start my firearms instruction. He had me fire each barrel, at close range, into an old derelict refrigerator, then walked me around behind and showed me the exit wounds to impress me with with the power of the beast, after already having been amply impressed with what that old Stevens had already done to my skinny, ten-year-old shoulder. Back then refrigerators weren't made of tissue paper and spit like they are today and when I saw the two holes ripped through the other side of that refrigerator, I became an ardent follower of the rules of firearm safety. It bode me well 8-years later by saving me from "thumpings" at Parris Island while falling in love with the good ol' M-1 Garand and Mr. Browning's 1911 45 ACP. And, it still serves me well. At 78, I'm still sporting both hands with five digits on each, have never had a gun go BANG unless I wanted it to, and I intend to keep it that way. Much to my poor ol' mama's relief, I never shot my eye out. I can't hear worth a damn though. Nobody knew about muffs and plugs back then, and a little ball of cotton in you ears didn't help much when an M-1 barked. "Real men" didn't worry about such trivialities, back then anyway. Huh... say again.

Anyway, enough of that, the reason for my question:

Even though I drooled over the Lee Loaders when they first came on the market, I never got one. Wouldn't have been much use... I couldn't afford a rifle to reload for, but it seemed like a great idea. I didn't start reloading until .... political commentary removed ..... school of thought so I started scarfing up all the 22 LRs I could find and bought myself a progressive press with all the dies and other paraphernalia needed to start loading for all my center-fire weapons. Then, I ran into a problem. Shelves in all the stores in my area were either utterly devoid of primers and powder or, what little was available had the prices jacked so high that one would've had to sell his first-born for a spoonful. I finally lucked out and scored eight-pounds of Alliant Red Dot that the dealer hadn't yet boosted above the original price. According to my Lee Manual, Red Dot was fine for my 1911, my 45 ACP semi-automatic carbine, and my Bersa .380 backup, carry gun, so I bought both jugs. .... political/threatening comments removed .... Even with all that reloading, the minuscule quantity of grains per cartridge for these two calibers has barely put a dent in the eight pounds of powder, and guys, I'd like to be able to use it for the .357 if I can.

Neither my 2nd Edition Lee manual nor my 50th Edition Lyman Manual lists Red Dot loads for .357 Magnum pistol, or rifle. So, I started searching other reloading forums for information and got answers by the bucket-full: "OH NO!, don't use that; can't be done; it's too hot; too fast; might blow your gun to a million pieces"; etc. It's like reading product reviews on Amazon.com! .... inappropriate comment removed .... So, so much for that venue, but I didn't give up, I started to do some very deep research online, for everything .357 Magnum—which, BTW led me to have read all the good stuff that some of y'all so kindly linked in your posts. Thank you. Lo and behold, I came across some very interesting data. From the time the .357 Magnum was introduced in 1934, having been developed by Elmer Keith, Phillip Sharpe,and D. B. Wesson, Red Dot powder was a powder of choice for .357 Magnum Loads. I found several different recipes including one from "Steves Pages" http://stevespages.com/page8.htm which lists: 5.0 - 6.0 gr, of Red Dot over a CCI #550 Magnum Primer under a 158 gr. LSWC bullet, which I plan to load with; I've found several other sources, even an old one from Elmer Keith, himself, but I won't list them all since they all fall within, or very close to, the same range near 5.0 - 6.0 grains of Red Dot under 158 LSWC bullet. Even the Alliant Powder Company's own 1996 reloading charts list Red Dot Powder for .357 Magnum at: 4.5 gr. - 5.5 gr., with a recommended starting wt, of 3.5 (which doesn't make sense to me, considering the minimum at 4.5) under a 158 gr. LSWC, yielding 1215 fps and 34000 psi. http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/reloa ... lliant1996 however Alliant Powder no longer lists recipes for RD in .357 loads.

I'm sure that many of you are thinking: "Lord but this man is long winded, and others—or all—thinking: "What is his point?" To the former, I must admit that it's a curse. I've been accused, many times, that I have a terrible tendency to use 5,000 words even if 500 would suffice. I apologize. To answer the other question, that was the reason for my long introductory. I am a total safety freak when it comes to things that go BOOM and, on top of that, I am also a detail freak, not to mention somewhat of an obsessive-compulsive. I've been able to find quite a lot of information on load data for using Red Dot powder in loading .357 Magnum. However, much of that data also refers to RD Powder to be very fast, and also very "spiky", pressures possibly jumping radically, even with tenth-grain increases, and possibly becoming unsafe for some guns as you reach the upper end of the load ranges. With only one-grain between minimum and maximum loads, this seems, to me, to be a concern requiring great attention to extreme care when measuring. Hence the question about maximum safe pressures for the Big Boy .357. I certainly want to risk damaging or destroying this gorgeous piece—and—at this late stage of life... I don't want to risk "putting my eye out." Thanks... and y'all have a great weekend.

[Squatch]

Yep that's a pretty fast powder. Should be well suited for light recoil cowboy action loads. Alliant lists loads for 38 but not 357.

Fast powders can be very SPIKY near max loads. Best to back off a notch from max.

For what it's worth I've been loading a lot with Unique(fast) for both the 44 mag and my 45/70 over the last year. Light cowboy style loads. Most loads are under 1,000fps. Not abusive at all. Makes for pleasant long days at the range.

For pushing speeds above that best to switch to a slower powder.

[445sm]

I used 2lbs of red dot in my 6" colt trooper 5.1 grs it shot at. 870fps adout 3 years ago i picked up a 92 browning for
Next to nothing. had 200 loads left from the late 80 's this load runs 1122fps in the 92. I have lots of Uniq now so
I use it now at the same speed.I woods hunt with this load
This load is from the 1974 speed book 4.8 - 5.2
This load is safe in my guns with 40 year old red dot .the Uniq is new stock