Accuracy problems

[Boltgun21]

Hello everyone. I am new to this. Forgive if this has been covered and I haven't seen any solutions yet. I have waited 3 years for my big boy steel case colored carbine to arrive. Ordered before covid. Just got it a week ago. Been to the range twice, on my second scope because I thought that would be easy fix. It wasn't. New scope same issue. At 50 yds I get 8 inch groups.
Last outing I did manage to find one load with 240 xtps that held 3inch at 50. I was looking here and noticed others have had rare but similar issues, while others are getting outstanding groups of 1.5 inch at 100.
Slugged my barrel today. Close as I can measure I got .430.

I have tried lead and jacketed. Fast and slow. Lightest I tried was 200gr. Heaviest was a 270 cast. I don't generally complain because I never want to be that guy. I build long range bolt guns for my local gunshop and know my way around a barrel. I cannot figure this one out. I cannot see or feel or measure anything obviously wrong.
Got more stuff loaded to try but am I wasting my time?

[Vaquero]

What about a bore scope and look down the barrel.
There is a member here that had some issue with one in a 357.
Don't recall exactly, but there was a serious issue. Seems it had tooling marks and such.
Hopefully he will chime in.

RP

[Boltgun21]

Thank you for the reply. Sadly I don't have a bore scope. I did use a good light and check the bore and crown. I can't see anything noticeable. Very disappointing. I have a 357 brass frame that does sub 2inch at 100 all day. Was hoping for close with this one but I'd settle for a reasonable group. I know this isn't a bench rest gun.

[HenryFan]

Boltgun -

You seem to know your way around long guns and you have probably already checked these but:

Are you sure your scope mount isn't loose?

Did you happen to run your fingers down the exterior of the barrel to make sure there isn't a bulge?

It's frustrating but good luck.

[BigAl52]

How does it shoot with factory loads? If its the same then call Henry and tell them your issues. Its happened before poor accuracy especially with the 44 mag.

[Boltgun21]

Thank you all for the responses.

I have checked and torqued every screw on mounts, stock, etc. I slugged the bore. I got .430. Tough with 12 grooves. Used micrometer and calipers.

I will check for bulges on outer side of barrel. This is the 16.5 in octagon. So I'll measure where I can. I know different barrels can be picky but I have never seen one quite like this. I have some factory ammo on the way. Stuff isn't cheap so I'm just trying to make sure there isn't something obvious.
As interesting as it is to try and figure out, it is equally frustrating. I'm just trying to have my bases covered when I talk to Henry.

[Boltgun21]

A quick question to you with 44. I had asked Henry what spec should be on barrel regarding bore-groove dimensions.
.430 seems like it's OK but shouldn't it be closer to .429?

[Vaquero]

I have an older one from '07 that I have never slug the barrel on but it shoots better than 8" at 50 yds with open sights.
Here's a recent target that I was trying out a new mold and doing a load test.

20230430_130208.jpg

RP

[Boltgun21]

That looks like a decent group. Was wondering about that Lee mold myself.
I'd be happy with that group.
I'm going to try and sneak to the range tomorrow. Try some more stuff. Don't have a lot of hope though.

[Mags]

Thank you for the reply. Sadly I don't have a bore scope. ..

This is decent inexpensive bore scope. I also bought a set of caliber specific mirrors.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TT ... UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085X ... UTF8&psc=1

[Gault]

Question, is this offhand or from a bench?

I ask because I test for accuracy from a bench. If from a bench, I am not sure I would screw around with it. I would send it back because something is wrong.

For comparison, I shot a .52" 4 shot group @ 50 yards using Federal bulk ammo today on my first outing with a BBX 357.

[rickhem]

I had a similar experience with a BBS .357 a while back. I think the thread is still listed in this forum as: "Accuracy Expectations with .357 Big Boy Steel". I too played musical sighting systems, and went through a number of different kinds of ammo, both factory and reloads, and eventually sent it back to Henry. I'm very happy with it now.
I hate to even suggest it, but if you've ran down the likely suspects, you may end up letting Henry deal with it. Thank goodness that they're as good with supporting their customers as they are.

[Gault]

I too played musical sighting systems, and went through a number of different kinds of ammo, both factory and reloads, and eventually sent it back to Henry. I'm very happy with it now.

Any idea what they fixed?

[parson48]

I have a BBS 44 mag with similar accuracy issues. I've sent it in for repairs twice only to get it back with same lousy accuracy. As of today it has arrived back in Rice Lake and I am supposed to receive a replacement rifle.

Henry has a great warranty and customer service policy, but not only is returning it an annoyance, trying different ammo is not a cheap proposition nowadays.

[Boltgun21]

Sorry I'm just catching up.
Question was asked if this was from a bench or offhand. Yes from a bench. 3x9Burris scope. Retested today. Hornady bullets measure .430, and shoot ok. Others like Speer and Sierra. 429-.4295. Will not group. Tested 240 Sierra and 270 Speer again today. Shot a 6in plus group with 240 Sierra and the Speer 270 load put one bullet in a 10 target, could not see other 4 so larger than 10in group. This all at 50 yds.

My stock lead load uses a 270 cast swc. Shot 4 rounds found one on target. Didn't waste anymore. I am sending it back with the request for new barrel. I can't see anything obvious but there is for sure something wrong.

[Boltgun21]

I will add quickly that based on my phone call with Henry, I do not expect better when it returns. Something tells me their spec is off on bore-groove dimensions. I was told .432 is saami spec so take that for what it's worth. This is the one time I send it. If it returns and shoot like crap still it will be gone. Paid too much to be this aggravated and ammo too expensive to throw at it trying to find something that works.

[BigAl52]

I dont blame you for being frustrated at all. Im not sure what you told them as you havent mentioned it Henry normally will not pay to much attention to complaints with reloads. They will usually only do something if its factory ammo you are having issues with. Not saying you havent told them that but you havent mentioned it either.

[fortyshooter]

I too HAD a Henry 44 Mag carbine that would not shoot any cast bullet mid range Magnum loads at 30 yds. without a couple key holes.
Bore slugged at .4325 and had that old style slow 1-38 twist. Seems Henry has a problem with their 44 Magnum specs as most other 44 mag rifles are .429 like the Uberti 44 Mag I replaced it with.

[5shot]

Boltgun 21

I've got an X-Model in .44 that I bought a few weeks before our deer season and I planned to hunt with it but it would throw unexplained flyers. I've been loading .44 mags for a half a century with both jacketed and cast and thought there would be a handload in the cabinet that would work. I ended up using a BBS in .45 Colt for deer instead.

After season ended I started trying to find out the reason for the flyers. Optics were ruled out because the rifle did the flyer thing with both a two minute Ultradot and with a 2.5X Leupold. Picatinny base was tight and I use Warne 4 screw rings and everything was good there. All screws were snug EXCEPT the screw in the bottom of the receiver which apparently secures the rear of the magazine tube which was loose by a full turn and a half. It might be a wild guess but could that have caused flyers?

I slugged the barrel and it came out a generous .431". One of the jacketed bullets I tried was Nosler 240 gr. JHP's loaded over W296 that were marked as being .429" but actually mic at just short of .428". I don't think it would reasonable to expect a bullet that far undersize to rattle down a bore that big and produce accuracy. I dunno. I tried 240 XTP's which mic at an actual .429" and they were better but not great. 2" flyers instead of 4". I'm going to try some cast bullets sized to .432" but am currently doing rehab from a knee replacement.

Keep us posted on your journey ....AND just for the heck of it...check that screw!

[Boltgun21]

I will keep you all posted. I have tested and checked all I can on my end. I have thrown over $250 worth of ammo plus handloads.

I have a brass frame 357 that hammers at 100. So imagine my surprise at this one! Tried same scope on this 44....well here I am.

Seems like us 44 owners may be getting short end of the stick. I am all for sticking to specs. I understand their point from manufacturing side. However the industry standard is .429 groove for 44.

I build custom long range rifles. If I chamber to max spec and charge 5k for a rifle, I can promise I won't be doing rifles anymore. Buyer will not be happy. If I told buyer chamber was in spec I would not be wrong but still be out of business.

Henry wouldn't tell me if barrels are hammer forged or cut rifled or button rifled. Just told me it was proprietary process. No matter what they do, target tells me something is off.

So stay tuned. It will be going back this week. I will post again with results of that outing when I get it back.

Let me add this. Henry has been great to deal with thus far. Not a knock on them and I know they are jumping to get rifles out.
I just think the 44 barrels could use some work to tighten up spec some. There doesn't seem to be same issues with other calibers as much.