Electricity to…….going off grid

[Sir Henry]

I’m getting an estimate for a 120v 20 amp underground feeder line to Alice.

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And I’m getting a separate estimate for a 120v 30 amp feed up the hill for a future barn. The feeds will be 600 and 400 feet respectively and will need to be oversized to keep the voltage from dropping. I’ve shopped online for the wire and it may cost upwards of $3K. I may have to sell a kidney to be able to afford it.

[Hatchdog]

I hear that. I wired a 30 amp RV outlet in my shop just running the wire from the breaker box to the outlet, maybe 50 ft. I can’t remember what gauge wire I had to use maybe 4 ga ? But even for that short run it was expensive. Funny side story, the trailer I had when I put the outlet in had the plug in the rear so I put the outlet on the rear wall of the shop. My motor home I have now has the plug on the side and I could have used probably only a third of the wire I did.

Good luck with your project and while it will be expensive having adequate power where you need is such an advantage.

[Sir Henry]

The 4 gauge sounds about right. That is what is in my RVport and what I’ll run down to the road and up the hill. Relatively speaking I didn’t pay much for the property mainly because it doesn’t have any out buildings. The house is small at only 1850sf and I need more room. The RV is a guest bedroom and tv room. Currently the garage is full of vehicles and trailers and it gives me no room for a shop. With the garage up the hill I can fill it with my teardrops, tractor and van and only put the Outback in the garage. That leaves two car spaces for a shop. The way it’s laid out it makes a better shop than a three car garage.

Edit: the wire to the RVport is 2-2-2-4 and so will the wire be to Alice and the garage.

[Sir Henry]

I only have propane heat and if I loose power I have absolutely no heat. I’m not alone and Price County Power has built a very reliable network and power outages usually only last a few hours. Still I’m tempted to have a battery backup with a solar and wind charging capabilities. Sun in the winter is scarce yet I usually have wind living on Timms Hill.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge in these matters?

[Mags]

Our basement rec room fake wood stove runs off propane, even when the power is out. I bought a couple of thermo-electric fans that generate and run off their own electricity that sit on top of the stove. Heat exchange with a dielectric material in the fan heat sink is what generates the electricity.

Sorry, can't help with the solar stuff.

[Sir Henry]

Our basement rec room fake wood stove runs off propane, even when the power is out. I bought a couple of thermo-electric fans that generate and run off their own electricity that sit on top of the stove. Heat exchange with a dielectric material in the fan heat sink is what generates the electricity.

Sorry, can't help with the solar stuff.

I bought a propane fireplace insert in Washington after loosing power for 20 days one winter. It had an electric fan that helped circulate the warm air but hasn’t needed. Then of course I never lost power after that. It was reassuring to know though.

I’ve thought of doing something like that here but there is just no place to put one.

[dave77]

Do you know how many watts your propane furnace needs, doesn't seem that it would be that high since it mostly just has to power the controls and a fan. If you're just wanting it for emergency use it would probably be quite a bit cheaper (but noisier) for a small/medium sized propane generator.

https://www.perchenergy.com/blog/energy ... hcs8qf31id

[Sir Henry]

Do you know how many watts your propane furnace needs, doesn't seem that it would be that high since it mostly just has to power the controls and a fan. If you're just wanting it for emergency use it would probably be quite a bit cheaper (but noisier) for a small/medium sized propane generator.

https://www.perchenergy.com/blog/energy ... hcs8qf31id

I have floor radiant heat so no fan and instead a water(liquid) pump. Speaking of pumps I would also need to supply electricity to my well pump and sewer pump. Lighting would take minimal power as I have all LEDs.

[Hatchdog]

Do you know how many watts your propane furnace needs, doesn't seem that it would be that high since it mostly just has to power the controls and a fan. If you're just wanting it for emergency use it would probably be quite a bit cheaper (but noisier) for a small/medium sized propane generator.

https://www.perchenergy.com/blog/energy ... hcs8qf31id

I have floor radiant heat so no fan and instead a water(liquid) pump. Speaking of pumps I would also need to supply electricity to my well pump and sewer pump. Lighting would take minimal power as I have all LEDs.

I’m not an authority on this at all so take what I say with a couple of pounds of salt but I’m wondering with the amount of power required to run a well pump would the battery bank on solar/wind have enough capacity to accomplish what you need? If you are having an electrician wire your shop and tractor shelter maybe have a side panel with a transfer switch installed in the home. Then even with a portable generator you could power the necessary systems in an outage. I understand you are asking about solar/wind generation so my reply probably doesn’t help you much.

[Sir Henry]

Do you know how many watts your propane furnace needs, doesn't seem that it would be that high since it mostly just has to power the controls and a fan. If you're just wanting it for emergency use it would probably be quite a bit cheaper (but noisier) for a small/medium sized propane generator.

https://www.perchenergy.com/blog/energy ... hcs8qf31id

I have floor radiant heat so no fan and instead a water(liquid) pump. Speaking of pumps I would also need to supply electricity to my well pump and sewer pump. Lighting would take minimal power as I have all LEDs.

I’m not an authority on this at all so take what I say with a couple of pounds of salt but I’m wondering with the amount of power required to run a well pump would the battery bank on solar/wind have enough capacity to accomplish what you need? If you are having an electrician wire your shop and tractor shelter maybe have a side panel with a transfer switch installed in the home. Then even with a portable generator you could power the necessary systems in an outage. I understand you are asking about solar/wind generation so my reply probably doesn’t help you much.

I don’t know what I want so any help is help. Basically what I’m looking at is $60 to $100K in batteries, turbans and solar panels to live with free power or to spend $2 to $5K and pay normal monthly power and during an outage spend $1,000 a month for propane. I’m betting I would only need generator power for 24 to 48 hours at a time or maybe never.

The locals tell me not to worry about loosing power yet I still remember the Inaugural Day Storm in Seattle where I was without power for 20 days.

[dave77]

How much is your average power bill? Unless it's quite high it would take you a long time to recoup $60k to $100k. Even if you had a very long power outage how likely are you to have more than one. With your ability to store propane (80% of 4000 gals isn't it) I would think a whole house generator would be the way to go but that's just my opinion.

It would be nice to be off the grid full time with solar or wind but unless you switched over to electric heat you're still dependent on propane deliveries.

[Sir Henry]

How much is your average power bill? Unless it's quite high it would take you a long time to recoup $60k to $100k. Even if you had a very long power outage how likely are you to have more than one. With your ability to store propane (80% of 4000 gals isn't it) I would think a whole house generator would be the way to go but that's just my opinion.

It would be nice to be off the grid full time with solar or wind but unless you switched over to electric heat you're still dependent on propane deliveries.

Mathematically you are correct about the cost vs savings. The big unknown is future electrical demand against supply.

And yes I’m 80% of 4,000 gallons of propane. I will break even on the cost of the tanks in about 15 year at today’s prices. I’m gambling in the future propane will cost a lot more which will lessen the time.

A big part of my reasoning is I have the money to do the battery/solar/turban setup and might as well spend it. If I die with the money in the bank then what was the point of having it.

[dave77]

Have you checked into staying on the grid and selling any of your excess power back to the electric company, also keeps you going if by chance there is a period of not enough sun/wind to keep your batteries charged up.

I take it you're going to keep your propane heat no matter what?

[Sir Henry]

Yes I would actually stay on the grid and sell back any excess. And yes I’m staying with propane because it’s the cheapest form of heat other than wood which isn’t that much cheaper.

One big driver for me to do this is political. The state is dictating to the power companies to provide electric charging stations for cars while the local power company is saying to expect rolling brownouts. Several coal power plants were torn down with the federal government providing wind and solar grants. Then the federal government withdrew the funding.

[dave77]

Don't know if affected you much when you were over on the west side of WA but our local PUD is required to purchase a certain percentage of our power from wind and solar sources even though we have surplus power from our dams. Many states don't consider Hydropower a renewable power source.

https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-h ... nergy.html

[Sir Henry]

Don't know if affected you much when you were over on the west side of WA but our local PUD is required to purchase a certain percentage of our power from wind and solar sources even though we have surplus power from our dams. Many states don't consider Hydropower a renewable power source.

https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-h ... nergy.html

I believe the top two hydro power producers are in Washington. Here in Wisconsin we don’t have nearly the water resources even though there is water everywhere. Water to produce electricity needs to fall and Wisconsin is too level.

[Sir Henry]

The trencher is coming Saturday so I should have power to the tractor shed by next week. They will also trench to the top of the hill and lay the line. I’ve contacted a neighbor to bulldoze the road and it might also be done in a few days. Then everything will sit over the winter till it’s warm enough to pour concrete. A month later I’ll be having a metal garage that’s 30’x72’ and a lean-to that’s 12’ wide and 36’ long installed.

This is the view from directly in front of the RVport and the road will go straight in front of it for about 100 yards.

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[Sir Henry]

I hung some party lights down by Alice this morning. I’m still scheduled to have the trenching done Saturday and the wires hooked up on Monday. These party lights are the same as I have on the house and garage.

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[Hatchdog]

Someday I’m going to make a road trip to Timms Hill WI just to drive past your place in the dark!

[Sir Henry]

Someday I’m going to make a road trip to Timms Hill WI just to drive past your place in the dark!

Stop and have coffee. It’s still only a dime.

A neighbor just stopped by and told me my RVport really looks nice from the road. We walked around and I showed him my propane tanks, we went inside the RV then walked up the hill where the garage is going. Everyone is telling me I’m doing a good job fixing the place. Actually I’m not fixing it but rather completing it.