Elio Type Vehicle Resurection --- AKA the BEX

[JEBar]

BIG NEWS ...!!!!

Per Mark BEX ....

Ok, Your serious attention is required please.

I am making a serious change to the car's concept. Please read all ...

Ever since I started on this project, the rear seat has been bugging me, in regards to a person having to sit back there in a confined space, staring at the back of the driver's seat and head, I have always felt it was unnaceptable, and of course was the major reason I moved to having a rear door.

But it doesn't help the space issue, or rather, the lack of space for the passenger, especially their legs of course, and it's been eating at me the entire project, along with a few other annoyances, a critical one being the fitment of air conditioning under the dash, there simple isn't room.

So 2 weeks ago, i decided to test out a "staggered seat" arrangement, modifying the current design to be wider at the base, but no wider at the roof, obviously tilting the sides to achieve that (3 degrees each side), and mending a few design issues as well along the way, but I digress ....

"Staggered seating" is achieved by moving the driver's seat to the left, and the rear seat to the right, offsetting them to each other, and here are the reasons why:

Passenger is more forward, with full forward viewing access.This also aids in the stability of the 3 wheeler with the weight moved forward away from the single rear wheel.

Passenger feels more part of the trip, rather than hidden 'down in the back'.

Massive leg room for passenger, and that is simply NOT available with tandem seating.

More storage space available, both next to the driver's seat, and directly behind the driver (next to the passenger).

Both seats can be reclined backwards for comfort and naps, with passenger in the car.

2 x front doors only needed, better visual balance of car design rather than "odd door".

2 OEM front doors allows use of OEM door trims, making internal trimming of car less complicated, and improved internal asthetics. Also electric windows on both front doors.

Length of car and length of wheelbase will be shorter shorter for better parking and maneuverability.

Overall styling presence improved due to better length to width ratio.

Car is lighter and cheaper due to less material useage.

Rear vision improved due to greater taper angle and narrower rear.

Car's stability and safety is improved with better 'reverse trike wheelbase triangle' ratio, and passenger/storage weight further forward.

Use of more standard 'off the shelf' parts such as steering rack, brake master cylinder, brake booster and pedal box (that before had to be assembled from different models cars) and modified previously. Also standard steering intermediate shaft, and clutch master cylinder and pedal box.

Most of these are important changes, but one of the most important is large area now available for an air conditioner unit, which was proving to be an issue.

In summary the main primary reasons for the change are:

-Passenger comfort.
-Passenger forward vision, and can see driver's face.
-Air conditioner fitment.
-Ease of cargo carrying ability.
-Ability to utilise unmodified OEM components, and less bespoke parts.
-The awesome things I have forgotten to write here today.

Anyway, look at the video for some explanation ..​

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xDhNzCMwKs

[markiver54]

Interesting changes, and I understand Mark's thinking. I would however, given the overall style of the vehicle, prefer the seating to be in the center and inline. Perhaps the front seat could be on a platform of sorts so that the passenger's legs could fit underneath the front seat. Just thinking. I realize, that only addresses one of the issues that Mark mentioned though.
I admire him for all his hard work on this project. Something I could never do.

[JEBar]

a Youtube video showing the recent developments in staggered seating --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzqdt5ybZJ0

another Youtube video showing the recent developments in staggered seating --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzqdt5ybZJ0

another Youtube video showing the recent developments in staggered seating --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzqdt5ybZJ0

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

I want to explain about the doors and roller seats:

A poster said: "I like the stagger idea in general, but this part I'm not as confident about. It's very common for a passenger to enter/exit while the driver remains seated, think about a parent picking up a child from school. So it needs to be reasonably easy to get in/out with the seats stationary, and that might make the whole roller system redundant".
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1/ Children will have no problem leaping into the rear seat with driver in position, and slimmer, flexible teens and adults will not have much of a problem climbing into the car with the driver sitting in it.
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2/ The next level of people a little wider, a little less flexible, will be able to get in and out with only the driver's backrest tilted forward, some even with the driver still seated, but leaning forward with the seat.
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3/ The ability for both seats to roll forward, is aimed at people not so flexible, not so slim, and those not so able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. With due respect, 30% of the potential cliental is over 60 years of age, 60% over the age of 45, this idea is specifically to cater for a wide range of physical requirements.
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4/ Note that to roll the seats forward, yes, the driver does need to exit the car, but not to leave the immediate door space. In the Elio, the driver would have to get out, and move clear of the door space for the passenger to enter the car, i.e. the BEX will be an easier process than entering the Elio would have been. Please consider the scenario picking up a child from school in the single door Elio in comparison.
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[JEBar]

I admire him for all his hard work on this project. Something I could never do.

understood and completely agree

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

Everything is shut up tight this year, more so than normal, I guess due to covid. It's like Xmas day or New Years day when everybody is shut, I expect this will last until next Monday, the 30th.

Lucky I can still fabricate by hand, annoyingly slow as it is, today designed and made the lower control arm front mounts, more complicated than they look.

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

Funny thing that I had a plan in mind for the lower control arm mounts, but because the steel suppliers are closed, I used some scrap laying around, and they have turned out better than what i had in mind.

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX .....

And now I have lower controls arms full mounted, it's time to start on the bouncy things ...

[JEBar]

In answer to the question ===> "Is the rear wheel going to be disc or drum brake??"


Mark responded ===> "Drum due to a much more effective parking than a disc. Many rear discs actually have an internal drum parking brake for this reason."

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

I feel a bit defeated, for a couple of days trying to make a good looking front suspension mounting, and just gave up. For the moment it's a bit agricultural, but strong and functional, will come back to aesthetics later.

Got home to find my sample seat had finally arrived (and all businesses are now open again). The seat needs a few mods, but is a good, well made foundation for what I want it to eventually be.

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

What a frustrating day. Went around to a couple of car seat and furniture upholsterers, but could not get them to understand what I wanted, clear case of them putting round pegs in round holes day after day, and not wanting to understand anything else.

So I grabbed an old seat cover, bought and cut some density foam to suit, and will do the rounds again tomorrow using it as a sample of what I want done, eg; wider, longer and thicker.

I really didn't think it was rocket science ..
​

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX .....

Annoyed about the seat yesterday, to a win today!

I made some simple overlap brackets that pushes the seat squab 50mm/2" further forward (or the backrest 2" back), and that mod has changed the seat's character completely. It now has support under the hamstrings, and feels wider, and for some reason gives more lumbar support even though the backrest hasn't changed.

I feel it still needs more cushioning on the squab, but that's no problem, some bespoke cushions with high density foam will fix that.

You can see it takes 4 bolts to hold it on rather than 2, no big deal, I'll laser some brackets later to shape that can be welded on. You can see the obvious air gap now between the squab and backrest ...​

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX .....

Well besides working on the seat platforms and runner design, while waiting for the 2nd seat to arrive (because I am satisfied with the sample), I came across another issue, I am unhappy with the amount of, or rather lack of steering lock.

This is because I angled the lower control arms forward a few degrees for a number of clearance reasons, and now the tyre hits the control arm.

So I am currently also figuring this out, and today ordered 2 different wheels with different ETs, and rim width to test.

"ET" isn't that creature from outer space, but is the distance from the center of the wheel rim to the mounting flange surface. ET0 (zero) would mean the flange is in the middle of the wheel (trailer wheels sometimes), and you have (in millimeters), ET25, ET35, ET43 and ET60 are the most common, with ET43 (41mm to 45mm) being likely 80% of all cars on the road today. ET25 means the wheel sticks outwards 18mm further than an ET43 would.​

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

Major surgery today, got the plasma cutter and blasted out 3 large holes each side, this to facilitate moving the lower control arm rear pivot further in, towards the center of the car. This does require a 'bump' in the chassis to get some clearance for the lower control arm rear pivot (arrow), but that's nothing.

Great thing about steel, you can cut it out, modify it, grind it clean, and simply weld over it again.

Moving the rear pivot now means I can get 37 degrees of steering lock on the inside (lead) wheel, which is better than 36 degrees, but not as good as 38 degrees., but a lot better than 35 degrees, but still almost 2 degrees from 39 degrees. It is however, a massive 20 degrees better than 17 degrees, so it's a win.​

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

2nd seat arrived today, didn't want to order 2 in the first instance in case they didn't work out, but things look good.

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....


Made the seat podiums today, very pleased that therer is no welding involved, just laser cut them out, fold and bolt them in.

I will move the rear axle further rearwards as probably 90% of the weight is sitting on them, pun intended, but other than that, happy.

The axles are untrimmed at the moment, that's why they are sticking out so far, and you can see the rollers on the axles​

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

I was going to just extend the seat podiums that I made yesterday, but got off my butt, refigured the design and made new ones today.

Basically moved the rear axle back 4" to transfer more of the weight to the front axle, you can see in the pictures, old and new, new and new. Also the axles are now covered for for better appearance.

For those interested in how I go about things, all folds were 90 degrees, as I always try to achieve, but in this case I couldn't at the rear, so still keeping it simple at 45 degrees, no using silly bespoke angles if I can avoid them.​

[JEBar]

Per Mark BEX ....

Today I made the seat runner channels.

Each made from 2 different size lengths of angle iron bolted together, and when I get them right, I will laser and fold the channels, likely from stainless steel as there's no welding involved, and they will look nice with no painting involved.​

[JEBar]

picture showing the way the tracks will be used

[JEBar]

In response to the question : "But if the passenger wants out, the driver has to get out first?"

Mark BEX answered : "
That depends on the passenger.

- Kids, teens, slender people should be able to hop in and out.

- Next size up may require the driver to tilt their seat forward, as well as bending forward with the seat while still seated.

- Next level may only need the driver rolling the seats forward and squashing themselves up against the steering wheel.

- Larger people and those with less physical abilities will require the driver out, and seats rolled forward.

PLEASE NOTE:

This vehicle is inspired by, and based on being an Elio alternate, the Elio has a single door that requires the driver to get out, step away from the vehicle to make clearance for the passenger to enter or exit.

With the BEX setup, if the driver is required to exit the vehicle, the driver can remain in the doorway without needing to step away from the vehicle, as required with the Elio, because the passenger is entering/exiting from the right door.

This is safer for everyone concerned, especially for kids entering on the right side, or curb side door, and not the traffic side.

So if one was willing to accept the Elio with just one door and needing to maneuver into a tight, confined, rear tandem seat, I can't see how one could argue against the clearly improved convenience of the BEX setup."