45-70 ?

[Travlin]

Do any of you load the 45-70 with black powder? I have a Rolling Block built on the number one action and I have made up some bullet lube with Crisco and beeswax. I have several cans of FFG and some of it is Dupont. I plan to use the Lyman 385 grain cast bullet that I have cast myself for many years. I know that black powder needs some compression and I have found that R.P. cases will take about 66 grains and still seat the bullet with moderate powder compression. Any one wanting to share their experience with this will be appreciated.

[John E Davies]

I can’t help, but I have to ask why you even want to do this, you must do a complete disassembly and thorough cleaning after each session, or even more often. If you are aware of this, no worries.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ask- ... owder/amp/

John Davies
Spokane WA

[JEBar]

while historically, black powder powered the 45-70 and I'm sure there have to be sources available load data .... having and shooting black powder rifles, I cringe at the thought of using it in our Henry CCH 45-70 .... if that is the way you really want to go, I hope it works out well

[fortyshooter]

Well the "70" is the amount of black powder it was designed for with a 405 gr. bullet so if 66 gr. will let the bullet sit on the charge with no gap within the crimp groove you should be fine. I have loaded them with Alliant Black MZ 49.8 gr. with a 500 gr. cast bullet for my 1885 High Wall single shot.

[Travlin]

Thanks for the replies. I would not shoot holy black in my Marlin 45-70 but the Rolling Block will be very easy to clean. Also I will have a small jug of soapy water to drop the empty cases in after I fire them and as I use an ultrasonic cleaner for all my brass, getting them very clean will not be a problem. As to why , I started reloading in 1969 and have always wanted to do some B.P.C.R. loading. As to the powder charge The modern solid head cases will not hold as much powder as the old "balloon head" cases. I was surprised that I could get the 66 grains and still have room for an over powder wad and to seat the bullet. I did research on the bullet lube and made my own for black powder .

[Travlin]

I read the link and found a few errors. There is a least one company that loads "cowboy loads" with black powder . There are some long range B.P.C.R. competitions that only allow black powder loads. Those rifles are shot to well over 500 yards. Don't forget there were some very good groups of two hundred yards and more shot with black powder cartridge rifles in the late eighteen and early nineteen hundreds. If any of you know who Harry Pope was, he made a very famous multi shot 200 yard group with his variant of the 32-40 the 33-40. If the ammo is loaded right, many accurate shots can be fired before the rifle barrel becomes very fouled.

[BigAl52]

68 grains 2fg swiss with a .30 vegetable fiber wad between powder and bullet. I used a drop tube to load the powder. Did it for many years with a Shiloh Sharps 45-70 #1 Sporter. Shot great and was alot of fun. Clean up is easy peasy. My bullet was a 540 grain Paul Jones Creedmore that I cast myself and I used SPG lube with some NAPA Transmission assembly lube mixed in with it. You may wonder why I did that. It at the time was the thing to do because it made the SPG lube better in hotter weather. You might know this already Travelin. Dont use any petroleum based lubes with black as it messes with fouling. You might also want to make a blow tube for blowing down the barrel between shots. YMMV

[Travlin]

Thanks Big Al52

[Travlin]

Big Al, How soft or hard did you cast your bullets? Is # 2 alloy too hard? I have poured a lot of lead since 1969, but except for my muzzle loading rifle and cap and ball revolver, they have all been #2 alloy.

[Hatchdog]

No experience with what you’re trying but I do have a comment. I shoot a modified F-Class mid-range event and we share the firing line with the local Black Powder Cartridge Shooters. We shoot at 600 yards (used to be 300 & 600 but the format was changed to 600 only). Anyway, it’s absolutely amazing to watch these BPCS shooters do what they do at 600. It’s kind of funny to be locked on my target and ready to send a shot and have a big cloud of smoke surround me. I’ve learned to time my shots with the BP guys.

As you said, these shooters drop the empty brass into a jug of water and they also use a tube to blow air through the bore. Not sure why they do that however. If I can find it I’ll add a picture of the firing line that shows a BPCR shooters rifle. They don’t shoot lever action’s, but some kind of single shot.

326F19CA-52DE-45F9-8C91-A9D8F32EA664.jpeg (263.98 KiB) Viewed 1618 times

[Kissmybrass]

68 grains 2fg swiss with a .30 vegetable fiber wad between powder and bullet. I used a drop tube to load the powder. Did it for many years with a Shiloh Sharps 45-70 #1 Sporter. Shot great and was alot of fun. Clean up is easy peasy. My bullet was a 540 grain Paul Jones Creedmore that I cast myself and I used SPG lube with some NAPA Transmission assembly lube mixed in with it. You may wonder why I did that. It at the time was the thing to do because it made the SPG lube better in hotter weather. You might know this already Travelin. Dont use any petroleum based lubes with black as it messes with fouling. You might also want to make a blow tube for blowing down the barrel between shots. YMMV

Throw some more pics up of that Sharps!
Beautiful rifle :-)

[Travlin]

Hathhdog, Thanks for the photo. The blow tube is used so the moisture in the breath will soften the black powder fouling. Watch Tom Selleck in Quigley Down Under and you will see him do it

[BigAl52]

Travelin I always used 30 to 1 lead alloy. Never used anything that hard. 30 to one lead to tin. The bars i got you could bend with your hands. I also pan lubed all my bullets.

[BigAl52]

68 grains 2fg swiss with a .30 vegetable fiber wad between powder and bullet. I used a drop tube to load the powder. Did it for many years with a Shiloh Sharps 45-70 #1 Sporter. Shot great and was alot of fun. Clean up is easy peasy. My bullet was a 540 grain Paul Jones Creedmore that I cast myself and I used SPG lube with some NAPA Transmission assembly lube mixed in with it. You may wonder why I did that. It at the time was the thing to do because it made the SPG lube better in hotter weather. You might know this already Travelin. Dont use any petroleum based lubes with black as it messes with fouling. You might also want to make a blow tube for blowing down the barrel between shots. YMMV

Throw some more pics up of that Sharps!
Beautiful rifle

Ill need to take some different ones Darin and right now Im in Texas for the winter.

[fortyshooter]

That is some fun shooting there! I notice the parking area located down from the firing line. Do they have a cease fire when someone pulls in?

[Travlin]

I am able to get 66.5 grains of F.F.G.by weight on an R.C.B.S. digital scale in the case without a drop tube just by tapping the side of the case against my cast iron press. I am using some Dupont powder that I have had for many years. If these loads work out, I will make a drop tube.