Copper Bullets: Yes, No, Maybe So?

[Redthies]

Who has tried copper bullets for hunting (aside from you Kalifornia folk). I bought a box of the Barnes .30-30 Vor-Tx 150 gun TSX FN rounds to try out. They are an intriguing looking bullet. Super thin walled and deep HP.

I also bought the same thing for my 7-08. 120 grn Tipped TSX BT. A very cool looking bullet as well. They claim 3005 FPS at the muzzle, and “opens instantly on contact, double diameter expansion and 100% weight retention”! Those are some big claims, but if they are even mostly true, they will be phenomenal to hunt with.

So if you’ve either dropped an animal, or just have a lot of shooting time with 100% copper bullets, what the verdict?

[GunnyGene]

Most folks object to the price for solid copper, about double that of traditional ammo. I have no experience with it, but I'd take a hard look at the internal and external ballistics of it in any gun that isn't designed specifically for hi-speed, low weight projectiles. Barrel twist may not be appropriate for example.

Also: from Chuck Hawks:

https://www.chuckhawks.com/hunting_bullet_guide2.htm

Barnes Bullets

Barnes is primarily known today as a manufacturer of solid copper (X-BULLET type) projectiles, which they originated. The basic version today is the Triple Shock X-Bullet (TSX), available in hollow point and plastic tipped variants.

The TSX is basically an X-Bullet with three driving bands around its circumference. These bands reduces friction on the bullet's trip down the bore and gives the copper displaced by the rifling lands somewhere to go (besides packing into the barrel's grooves). Copper fouling is a problem with solid copper bullets. The TSX line has replaced the first generation X-Bullet and second generation XLC bullet lines. Barnes Triple Shock X-Bullets are offered in Federal, Weatherby and Cor-Bon factory loaded ammunition, as well as to reloaders.

One of the friendly tech reps at Barnes Bullets told me that all X-Type big game hunting bullets, regardless of caliber or weight, are designed to initiate expansion at impact velocities of 1600 fps. Effective expansion will occur at impact velocities in excess of about 1800 fps. TSX bullets, HP and tipped, are known for very deep penetration (they usually shoot clear through CXP2 animals) and very high weight retention. Barnes also produces an extensive line of Banded Solids (homogeneous non-expanding) rifle bullets in calibers from .22 to .600 NE.

[BigAl52]

Ive used them for hunting in my 338 Win mag. I have also bought just the bullet and reloaded them. I can tell you nothing from personal experience about getting an animal with them. But accuracy wise in my gun you need to work real hard to get a load put together that shoots better than the factory loads do. They also do not like to be seated close to the lands like other bullets do. Some bullet jump is better for accuracy.

876B7209-C18F-4AA8-BD7A-B2E4F44ABF66.jpeg (223.5 KiB) Viewed 2680 times

Here is a 5 shot group shot with reloads at a 100 yards Gun is a Savage Bear Hunter 338. The bullets I used here were the blue tipped ones.

[Redthies]

Thanks for the responses. The .30-30 will be my 336 BL which has the micro groove rifling, and I will look into compatibility with that. I also have lots of Horandy FTX 160s, so will have a back up plan. I like the concept of the copper bullets, but if using them jeopardizes a reliable and humane kill, I’ll stay with conventional bullets.

[Shakey Jake]

The only Barnes I've tried was in my .280 and it didn't like them so much. Different barrels I guess give different results. Never tried them for hunting. Now I have reloaded the Nosler lead free E-tip bullets for my 25-06 (100 gr) and it shoots 'em just fine.
Jake

[JEBar]

I've never hunted in an area that required copper bullets .... in the hope of someday doing so I did a good bit of research and have stockpiled Nosler E-tips ====> https://www.nosler.com/products/bullets ... -tipr.html in all of our 30 cal rifle weights that I hunt with .... on the range their trajectory is very close to Nosler ballistics which are much cheaper to shoot

[North Country Gal]

I've used Barnes factory ammo in 357, 44 mag and 454 and accuracy has been excellent. Not cheap, but every bit as good in accuracy as any premium lead factory loads. I've also used Barnes sabots when shooting inline muzzle loading. Definitely the most accurate sabots in my Encore ML. TC sabots weren't bad, but the Barnes shot better.

[JEBar]

I've used Barnes factory ammo in 357, 44 mag and 454 ....

agree with the performance of Barnes .... for solid copper in our 45-70 we use their Barnes Buster Bullets .... in our 45-70 Government (458 Diameter) 400 Gr Flat Nose Flat Base ====> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010409631 .... in our 44 Mag 44 Remington Magnum (429 Diameter) 300 Grain Flat Nose Flat Base ====> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010419149?pid=966023

[Rifletom]

I've shot the 115gr Barnes TTSX in my .25-06 when I had one. Shot very good. It took a very good Ca. pronghorn in 2007 with that load. I've also loaded up those Barnes 150gr TSX's in my Mod 94 30-30 with great accuracy. Used Win 748 in that load.

[Redthies]

Well, we got out and burned some powder and learned a few things. My Marlin hates 160 grain FTXs (LeverEvolution), Which is too bad as I have a ton of boxes of that, but it does like the Barnes copper rounds! Top two targets are both from 100 yards with 4x Nikon. Two shots, and then one. Patches are covering shots from Hornady. Used the headache rack on the pickup as a shooting bench. Hi-tech red-neck!

I also shot my BBSC “big game carbine” .44 Magnum for the first time too. I used my laser bore sight to set the Skinner Express and Patridge combo, and it turns out it was quite effective. It’s dead center, but hitting low. The rear is as low as it goes, so I guess I’ll take a hair or two offthe front in order to get my POI lower. Photos in next post.

[Redthies]

.44 Mag BBSC from 50 yards with elevation off by 8” or so. Kind of guessing really, So I’ll have to go out again after I shorten the front sight a bit. Top photo is 225 grain FTX LeverEvolution with one off paper, and lower photo is 240 grain cast HPs relaoded by the guy I bought the carbine from. They definitely had less recoil than the Hornady or Federal 240 JHPs I shot, so loaded light I’d guess, but it shot them the best.

[Redthies]

And finally, my apprentice shooting a barrel mounted Skinner peep with a random Henry front sight I pulled out of my parts bin (.450 I think) through his el cheapo Mossberg 464. 100 yards kneeling. The kid can shoot! Must be nice to have young eyes and no coffee shakes! 170 grain Federal blue box.

[Oldbrass]

No experience with them, my neighbor kid took a blacktail deer with a hornady GMX in a 7-08 some years ago. I know no details of the shot other than dead deer. Copper isn't required in Washington (yet) but my neighbor said they were very accurate in that rifle. A savage axis if I recall.. IMHO shot placement rules above all else.. As for price.. Truck, fuel, gear, license, rifle..then complain about a few extra dollars for the business end of the whole ordeal

[ruhler]

Anyone tried copper with a Henry 44mag 1:38 twist? Mine shoots cast bullets 265gr rnfp sized at .432 best. Im pretty sure copper that have longer bullet needs tighter bore and 1:20 twist.

[Redthies]

Well, I now have firsthand experience with the performance of copper, and I’m damn happy. Nice sized spike blacktail went down after one step, and one kick of the hind legs on its side and it was still. Lethal stuff. Shot placement? Yeah, it was good. Took off the top of the heart, through the lungs and recovered the bullet just under the hide behind the ribs. Shot was straight on from the front.

My only regret? That Henry doesn’t make a shorter barreled.30-30 for us tight woods guys. I was packing my 18” barreled Marlin 336 BL with Nikon 1-4x. My first deer with the Marlin, and first with copper. And since we are all being honest, my first deer ever. Being an upland guy with a pack of bird dogs, it’s not my focus, but it’s good to finally get one!

[JEBar]

congrats .... nice buck and I thoroughly enjoyed your write-up

[Ernie]

Congratulations on your deer. Nice shot and good looking rifle.

[Redthies]

Thanks guys! The Marlin is a very late Remlin, and despite all the pooh-poohing of the early Remlins, this one is a great gun! I took it down to the last nut and screw and polished all the internals before I fired a single shot out of it, and I have to say, it’s <almost> as good as a Henry now. It’s a smooth and tight gun, and a heck of a shooter.

I gotta get busy and start breaking down that deer after my morning coffee and maybe some heart and eggs for breakfast.

[Hatchdog]

Congrats on your buck, that looks to be a nice sized Blackie. His neck looks pretty swollen, he must of been “looking for love in all the wrong places”. I’m hoping that he came to a stop on that skid road he’s on in your pic and you had a nice easy retrieve.

Thanks for sharing the pic.

[Rifletom]

Nice shot and a nice buck. Was that the factory Barnes 150's? Oh, very nice looking rifle set-up you have there. Congrats!