Dies for 38sp/357mag

[gpraceman]

I have a Dillon 750 and a set of Lee Carbide dies for 38 special/357 magnum. This is the first time for me reloading this caliber. I made up some test loads and wasn't really happy with the Lee Factory Crimp die. On some rounds, it really seemed to be compressing the top of the case and bullet. I guess that is by design, but the crimps were not very consistent and it did mess with bullet seating depth a tad. It did also make cycling the press handle more difficult. Does anyone have a crimp die or a whole die set that you like for this caliber?

[Vaquero]

I use the Lee's also, and bought a Lee factory crimp die.
Which is what I buy for all the pistol calibers that I shoot in rifles plus all calibers for any lever action rifles. 30-30, 35 Rem. 308 Marlin exp. and the 444.

RP

[CT_Shooter]

On some rounds, it really seemed to be compressing the top of the case and bullet. I guess that is by design, but the crimps were not very consistent and it did mess with bullet seating depth a tad. It did also make cycling the press handle more difficult. Does anyone have a crimp die or a whole die set that you like for this caliber?

I only reload 38/357 ammunition and have been using the Lee four die carbide set since I started reloading six years ago. They have always produced consistently for me. I'm very happy with the results.

It does sound like something is going wrong for you, though. I wonder if you may have set the FCD to provide an overly strong crimp and/or that your seating die is providing a crimp, too.

My practice has been to only reload cases having the same headstamp and, usually, that come from the same box of factory ammo. I adjust the FCD for each box of cases and give it about a third of turn. I've also raised the bullet seating die to prevent it from crimping the case while seating a bullet.

Keep us posted, please.

[Grunt67]

I agree with CT, I believe you are getting a double shot somewhere down the way. I use Lee factory crimp dies on everything from
9m to 45/70, with no issues.
Go back & reset your die. Sounds like it's too deep.

[gpraceman]

I am using mixed head stamp cases, which I bought from Capital Cartridge. I have made sure that the seating die is not doing any crimping.

I'll raise the crimp die body and see if that helps.

[ol'pole]

I have been using Lee carbide 357 dies for 15 yrs. Here are some suggestions:
What is the case length ? if the length varies a lot then your crimps will vary
make sure the die is tight in the press,
make sure the die is clean,
and set the die so it crimps at the top of the stroke (ram at the top, handle at the bottom) the crimp die shouldn't touch the shell holder.
Hope this will help

[gpraceman]

I did reset the crimp die. The die body is nowhere near touching the shell plate. I am just giving it a light crimp right now. Dies were all cleaned with break cleaner and then had a light amount of a graphite lube applied before I started. Brand new dies.

Where I am feeling the resistance is when the cartridge is entering the carbide ring. I am using 158 gr RNFP coated bullets from Kimberlin Creek. I measured some of the bullets and they were all 0.358" in diameter.

On the cases, I do see a variation from 1.267" to 1.281" in length. Again, that is mixed head stamps. I had been too lazy to do any sorting by head stamp. I guess that I might need to or find a crimp die that can deal with a bit of variation on case length.

[gpraceman]

Maybe with the variable length of cases, I am getting a bit more flare with the longer cases from the powder through die. I am using the Lee Auto Drum powder measure.

[ol'pole]

"Where I am feeling the resistance is when the cartridge is entering the carbide ring"
That's normal, the Lee crimp die also sizes the finished cartridge to ensure it will be properly sized for a revolver.
If you want you can adjust the seating die to crimp as you seat the bullet and eliminate the final crimp die, a little trickier to adjust but might work better for you

Max case length for a .357 is 1.290, the min. should be about .010 to shorter, a case will stretch .005 to.010 as its sized. I would measure the case length before and after sizing.
Different manufacturers use different types of brass for the cases, some harder than others thus different amounts they will stretch when sized, maeby sort by manf.

[gpraceman]

"Where I am feeling the resistance is when the cartridge is entering the carbide ring"
That's normal, the Lee crimp die also sizes the finished cartridge to ensure it will be properly sized for a revolver.
If you want you can adjust the seating die to crimp as you seat the bullet and eliminate the final crimp die, a little trickier to adjust but might work better for you

One reason that I moved up from the Dillon 550 to the 750 was so I could split the seating and crimping, while having a powder check.

I'll have to see how this batch shoots. Maybe it really isn't a problem. This is my first chance reloading for 38/357 and I hadn't experienced this with reloading 9mm. Then again, I have a Redding crimp die for 9mm (couldn't find a Lee FCD at the time).

[Rifletom]

Hmm. gp, on a Dillon, I'm not sure of the "set-up", but, it sounds like a issue with the way the Lee crimper is set. These are pretty easy to adjust.
re-read the instructions; you may have missed something there. Not trying to sound like a know it all here, but, we'll help get this figured out. Let me find my Lee dies/info and look, then, I'll get back to you.

[CT_Shooter]

I did reset the crimp die. The die body is nowhere near touching the shell plate.

It should touch the shell holder. The crimp adjustment is made afterwards.

Screw the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die in, until it just touches the shell holder and back out the adjusting screw.
With the loaded round in the die, turn the adjusting screw in until you can feel it just touch the case mouth. Then move the cartridge out of the die slightly and screw the adjusting screw in 1/2 turn for a light crimp and one full turn for a heavy crimp. You can adjust for even greater crimp and never have to worry about buckling the case as with conventional crimpers. The case is sized as it enters the die and again as it is pulled out of the die. This assures you every case will freely chamber in any standard gun. Don’t expect the carbide sizer to touch every case. It is a fail safe tool for the occasional bad round that could ruin your day.

[Grunt67]

Ditto, CT.

[gpraceman]

It should touch the shell holder. The crimp adjustment is made afterwards.

Screw the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die in, until it just touches the shell holder and back out the adjusting screw.
With the loaded round in the die, turn the adjusting screw in until you can feel it just touch the case mouth. Then move the cartridge out of the die slightly and screw the adjusting screw in 1/2 turn for a light crimp and one full turn for a heavy crimp. You can adjust for even greater crimp and never have to worry about buckling the case as with conventional crimpers. The case is sized as it enters the die and again as it is pulled out of the die. This assures you every case will freely chamber in any standard gun. Don’t expect the carbide sizer to touch every case. It is a fail safe tool for the occasional bad round that could ruin your day.

On a 750, it is a bit difficult to get the die to touch the shell plate and still have any threads to have a lock ring bite on. The die body is rather too short. The only option is to move the lock ring to the bottom of the toolhead. I could do that, but I really don't think it would make a difference. If the die body is not all of the way touching the shell plate, I would think that would just mean that the carbide ring is not going to do any sizing of the finished cartridge all of the way down to the base. Where I feel it being rough is when the top of the case (where the bullet sits) enters or exits the carbide ring.

With how that die does crimping, it sure seems like there is going to be variation in how much of a crimp happens with cases of varying length. It seems that longer cases will get more of a crimp and shorter cases less so.

[fortyshooter]

I use the Dillon dies on my 550 for 38/357 and get great results. If you set up the seating die with a short case a case .010 or longer will give you too much material and of course a tighter crimp compared to the one you set it up with.

[Travlin]

I only use the Lee factory crimp die on cases that headspace on the case mouth such as .45 A.C.P. For the others such as .38/357 or .44 etc., I use the seater die to get a good roll crimp so the recoil in a revolver won't make the bullet move forward to tie up the cylinder. When I started loading in 1969 it was for .38/357 and this method has worked for me for all of the years since then and several thousands rounds.

[gpraceman]

I only use the Lee factory crimp die on cases that headspace on the case mouth such as .45 A.C.P. For the others such as .38/357 or .44 etc., I use the seater die to get a good roll crimp so the recoil in a revolver won't make the bullet move forward to tie up the cylinder. When I started loading in 1969 it was for .38/357 and this method has worked for me for all of the years since then and several thousands rounds.

Eventually, I would like to have a nice case hardened 38/357 revolver to buddy up with my BB lever action, like @fortyshooter. For now, it is just the lever action that I am loading for.

[gpraceman]

Here's a sample round. There are two shiny bands near the case mouth where the carbide ring looks to be doing some sizing. Probably too little crimp. These are loaded to 1.590" COAL.

[fortyshooter]

Looks like it has a slight roll into the groove. Was that a shorter case length on that one? Looks like you have some crimp groove left.

My Dillon crimp dies use a modified taper crimp which for me seems to work well in revolver loads and .45 ACP type load or for bullets that don't have a crimp groove. On the 550B you still have seperate stations for sizing, powder dump, seating and crimping. I do use the Redding dual ring carbide sizing die for .45 Colt which sizes the lower part of a Colt case to a lesser degree to get rid of the over sizing look the Dillon and other dies do.

[Rifletom]

Forty, on one of your .45 Colt rounds, could you measure just below the crimp, then where the base of the bullet appears with the way you load using the Redding sizer? This is something that hadn't occurred to me until this thread. it may mean something or maybe nothing. What do you think? Could be a new trick this old dog can learn. Thanks.