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Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

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GunnyGene
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Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by GunnyGene » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:46 pm

KISS principle for defensive encounters of the lethal kind.

Excerpt: Read the entire article.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/non-l ... dont-work/

I often hear good legal advice about armed, non-lethal responses when faced by a lethal threat to yourself or others. Some of these options include displaying your firearm prior to firing, or yelling “Stop or I will shoot!” or something similar prior to shooting. You could fire a warning shot or even a wounding shot — as some people advise — rather than aiming for center mass.

I’ve read this advice in literature written by quality instructors, and I’ve been in reputable classes, primarily aimed at civilians, that taught many of these tactics. Quite a few courses teach their students to create distance while verbally warning their attacker and drawing and firing their weapon. I’ve heard it myself in introductory concealed carry permit courses.

When I think about those tactics, they seem like good, sound legal advice that may help keep you out of jail, and may even keep you from firing upon a threat that was perceived, but not real. But I reject those tactics.

I have tried them, and after having tried them repeatedly, with coaching, I have completely removed them from my training.
Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes is rapidly becoming a reality (11/2023). Para Bellum.

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Sir Henry
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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by Sir Henry » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:19 pm

In Washington state if you draw your weapon and not shoot it is called brandishing and is illegal. If the threat is not sufficient for you to shoot you can not draw.

That is my guiding thoughts.

There was another thread going around about you doing what you are trained to do. When things happen you don’t think and just do whatever you have practiced. So practice exactly what you want to do.
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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by BrokenolMarine » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:59 pm

Yup, firing warning shots puts innocents at risk. Firing "wounding" shots... :roll:
Phsssh...

Under high stress, most shooters haven't had the training or PRACTICED enough to have a high percentage chance of hitting center mass shots, let alone chancing aiming for a smaller target to wound...

Again, risking that miss that puts innocents at risk.

This is why I remind students to chose the gun that fits THEM the best and they can shoot well. Revolver or semiauto, six, eight, or fifteen rounds. You are legally responsible for Every round you fire. Isn't the movies, no spray and pray.
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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by Grunt67 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:08 am

Completely agree Marine. In law enforcement we were taught to fire until the threat has ended.
Imagine a Marine & Army agreeing on anything, LOL.
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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by Team Roper » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:19 am

Agreed ! :D

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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by GunnyGene » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:44 am

Grunt67 wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:08 am
Completely agree Marine. In law enforcement we were taught to fire until the threat has ended.
Imagine a Marine & Army agreeing on anything, LOL.
Therein lies the question. Determining the beginning and ending points, and the magnitude, of a threat. A subjective judgement call if there ever was one, that is at the heart of legal and community relations issues.
Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes is rapidly becoming a reality (11/2023). Para Bellum.

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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by Grunt67 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:33 am

That it is, or can be. One split second mistake, and you're in serious legal trouble. Gone from hero to villian .
Haven't gone thru that yet, but it's early in the day.
Shooting some one in the arm, leg, gun out of their hand, left when Roy Roger's did.
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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by cooperhawk » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:36 am

Legally, if you brandish a weapon that is "Assault". If you attack someone either physically or by firing a shot, that is "Battery".

My rule is no one will know I am armed unless the decision is to be "Judged by twelve, or Carried by six".

Double tap center mass.

If I act I would expect to have my weapon confiscated and even being charged with something.

Still better than being dead.
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Re: Simplify - Close encounters of the lethal kind - training

Post by GunnyGene » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:35 am

cooperhawk wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:36 am
Legally, if you brandish a weapon that is "Assault". If you attack someone either physically or by firing a shot, that is "Battery".

My rule is no one will know I am armed unless the decision is to be "Judged by twelve, or Carried by six".

Double tap center mass.

If I act I would expect to have my weapon confiscated and even being charged with something.

Still better than being dead.
Trouble is that jurisdictions tend to define "brandishing" differently. What constitutes brandishing in one State ( or town), may be perfectly legal in another. In MS brandishing is defined as displaying a weapon in a threatening manner, not in necessary self defense.

Even so, there is room for legal arguments.

§ 97-37-19. Deadly weapons; exhibiting in threatening manner.

If any person, having or carrying any dirk, dirk-knife, sword, sword-cane, or any deadly weapon, or other weapon the carrying of which concealed is prohibited by Section 97-37-1, shall, in the presence of another person, brandish or wield the same in a threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, or shall in any manner unlawfully use the same in any fight or quarrel, the person so offending, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined in a sum not exceeding Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) or be imprisoned in the county jail not exceeding three (3) months, or both. In prosecutions under this section it shall not be necessary for the affidavit or indictment to aver, nor for the state to prove on the trial, that any gun, pistol, or other firearm was charged, loaded, or in condition to be discharged.
Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes is rapidly becoming a reality (11/2023). Para Bellum.

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