Firearms for Texas Oct 2020

[Sir Henry]

I have another thread about this trip that will be more about sightseeing and the trip in general. This thread will be about firearms and shooting.

My choices will be a CZ American in .17HMR, an H&R DA breaktop in .22LR and maybe one more. I want to keep the weight down but more important I just don’t like traveling long distances with a bunch of firearms.

Last time I took the CZ and didn’t shoot all that great. The bench was wobbly, I was standing in an inch of water and my benchrest was an ammo can. This time I’m coming with my own benchrest.

My goal is like last time and a quarter inch at 100 yards. Last year my best was over an inch and several were three inch groups. I think the rifle is capable.

Getting my heart rate down is my biggest concern. At 71 it is difficult to get it below 50 beats which is what it takes. With the 24x scope I can see I’m moving a half inch or more each beat. Getting the round off between beats is critical.

[Oldbrass]

50 beats ? Some kind of Zen Buddah to get that low, plus I'd have to go without coffee

[Sir Henry]

50 beats ? Some kind of Zen Buddah to get that low, plus I'd have to go without coffee

No coffee or very much food. I can’t be starving but my stomach can’t be full either. When I was a younger mountaineer I could get it down below 40.

[Hatchdog]

Is this an organized competition you are attending?

[Sir Henry]

Is this an organized competition you are attending?

No. I just want to show off! My friend in the Army is a very good shot now that he is older. When he was 16 I could outshoot him. Now that he is an E-7 I can’t.

[North Country Gal]

Did I read that right? A quarter inch, .25", at 100 yards?

[Sir Henry]

Did I read that right? A quarter inch, .25", at 100 yards?

Yes. I’ve never gotten it. My best is just under an inch. I think the rifle is capable in the right hands. With the 24x scope I can see that fine and any movement before, during or after the shot.

After putting out targets I’ll get setup to shoot and then lay my head down for ten minutes to get my heartbeat down. Then I have the problem of breathing. I have to hold my breath but if I do that my vision starts to blur if I can’t get the shot off in five seconds.

Breathing, heartbeat and trigger control all must be mastered. It takes a lot of concentration and I can only do it for three shots before I’m exhausted.

And then there is the floater in my eye.

Am I crazy!

***********************************************

I’m in great shape. Last summer I attempted Mt Stuart and climbed just short of 9,000 feet in 36 hours. I didn’t summit and was 400 feet from the top before I gave up. I’ve climbed it before in about 18 hours round trip.

Part of the elevation gain is coming out going over Longs Pass.

[Sir Henry]

These are the targets I use. The smallest circle is half an inch. One shot per bullseye. You get two sight-in shots on the lower right.

ABD354C8-E4F0-4131-813F-608CF0AC31A8.jpeg (169.01 KiB) Viewed 1273 times

[North Country Gal]

By all means, go for it, Gene. You have nothing to lose, but .25 MOA is a stretch for a rimfire, to put it nicely.

Let's see what that .25" group at 100 yards rimfire standard means.

A rifle capable of shooting .25" groups at 100 yards is a .25 MOA rifle. To have a chance of shooting those .25" groups at 100 yards and achieving that .25 MOA status, then, your CZ 17 HMR must be able to shoot .125" groups at 50 yards and do it, again and again, on a regular basis. Not a best ever group, mind you, but consistent groups in that size. Why? In the real world of rimfire shooting, it takes ideal shooting conditions to maintain the same MOA when going from 50 yard shooting to 100 yard shooting. More often than not, you will lose some of that MOA when you move to 100 yards, because rimfires are very susceptible to shooting conditions at 100 yards. As a rule of thumb with rimfires, take you best regular 50 yard groups and multiply them by a factor of 2.5, rather than 2 to get your typical 100 yard group on a day of good shooting conditions and more like 3x on a day when the wind is noticeable. It takes an exceptional day to be able to only go 2x.

Let's look at an example. Our best 17 HMR is our CZ 453 Varmint. My best regular groups at 50 on days when my shooting is up to snuff and conditions are good run around .28" to .32" (just a bit over .5 MOA). My best ever 50 yard group with this rifle was right at .23" at 50 (.46 MOA). At 100 yards, my best ever group with this rifle was an amazing .42" group (.42 MOA), but I've never been able to repeat it. On those excellent shooting days, I'm more typically in that .60" range (.6 MOA), which I regard as excellent with any rimfire. On good, but not excellent, shooting condition days, my groups at 100 with this rifle usually run .75 or so to up around an inch.

So, .25" at 100 yards with your CZ? One thing for sure, we won't get here by talking about it, so get out there and go for it.

[Sir Henry]

Thanks Joanie, it might be another embarrassing year for me in Texas. I’ve broken an inch a few times and not broken an inch a lot. I’m gong to lookup my post from last year. Sometimes I remember being a better shot than I really am.

[Sir Henry]

I texted my friend and he said I’ve never brought the American to Texas. It was the CZ FS in 17. He said we shot it and his Ruger 77/22. Maybe I was thinking of it.

[North Country Gal]

Given that the American is more scope friendly and given that I've had an American in 17 HMR that was very accurate, I'd say the American is the better choice, anyway.

[Sir Henry]

After a few texts with my friend I learned we shot the FS CZ and Ruger 77/22 at 100 yards and, get this, it was the CZ American in .22LR that we shot at 50 yards and that is where I got the just under inch.

I liked my memory better than reality.

[JEBar]

interesting caliber choices .... I guess it just boils down to whatever you enjoy .... because I thoroughly enjoy shooting Trap, my Remington 11-87 is onboard every time our camper leaves the yard .... over time the rifle I pack has varied, for the last few years its been our BBS 44 Mag .... our plan is to take it to Texas again in January along with its companion Ruger Redhawk .... because we hope to make some upgrades to our 300 WBY Mag, it will also make the trip .... I'm looking forward to following your range reports and use impressions for whatever you choose to take

[Sir Henry]

interesting caliber choices .... I guess it just boils down to whatever you enjoy .... because I thoroughly enjoy shooting Trap, my Remington 11-87 is onboard every time our camper leaves the yard .... over time the rifle I pack has varied, for the last few years its been our BBS 44 Mag .... our plan is to take it to Texas again in January along with its companion Ruger Redhawk .... because we hope to make some upgrades to our 300 WBY Mag, it will also make the trip .... I'm looking forward to following your range reports and use impressions for whatever you choose to take

I’ll only be taking rimfire. My friend has a Remington 700 long rang in 300 win mag plus a few dozen others that we can shoot. He is a big time hunter. I am not.

[JEBar]

I’ll only be taking rimfire. My friend has a Remington 700 long rang in 300 win mag plus a few dozen others that we can shoot. He is a big time hunter. I am not.

sadly, my hunting days are pretty well over .... our 300 WBY is also a Remington 700 BDL ... early on (to drastically reduce felt recoil) we had it Mag-na-ported, installed a Mercury Recoil Suppressor and installed the best recoil pad available at the time .... this year I plan to work on long range accuracy .... first up will be glass bedding the stock .... second custom trigger work .... should the gunsmith recommend anything short of a custom barrel, we will most certainly strongly consider it .... my goal for this rifle is to make it fully capable of making very long range shots that I'll probably never have the opportunity to try

[Sir Henry]

I’ll only be taking rimfire. My friend has a Remington 700 long rang in 300 win mag plus a few dozen others that we can shoot. He is a big time hunter. I am not.

sadly, my hunting days are pretty well over .... our 300 WBY is also a Remington 700 BDL ... early on (to drastically reduce felt recoil) we had it Mag-na-ported, installed a Mercury Recoil Suppressor and installed the best recoil pad available at the time .... this year I plan to work on long range accuracy .... first up will be glass bedding the stock .... second custom trigger work .... should the gunsmith recommend anything short of a custom barrel, we will most certainly strongly consider it .... my goal for this rifle is to make it fully capable of making very long range shots that I'll probably never have the opportunity to try

I’ve never glass bedded a rifle. Keep us in the loop when you do.

[JEBar]

I’ve never glass bedded a rifle. Keep us in the loop when you do.

this will be a first for me as well .... as such, I don't have any past experience to go by when anticipating how much it will improve the rifle's accuracy

[BigAl52]

Good luck Gene and just a comment to Old Brass. My resting heart rate is about 47 to 48 and most of the time in the lower 50,s but I ride about 100 miles a week on a bicycle and the rest of the time I am walking. As much dirt rock and other yard work things that Gene has done at his age Im not surprised that his heart rate is that low.

[North Country Gal]

Good to hear, Al. I ride 100 miles a week or more, too, basically a combination of road riding and trail riding (I built my own trail system on our property).