22k Hornet

[Sir Henry]

I’m thinking of getting a 22 Hornet rifle. It will most likely be a CZ American. What do I need to know about the rifle and cartridge? The last time I was visiting my friend in TX he let me shoot his. I’m going back to TX in early October and want to be armed with information this time.

He hinted at selling his Ruger 77/22.

[bandit1250]

Sir Henry, Your title says K Hornet (Lysle Kilbourn version) which is the improved version of the factory standard Hornet. The standard case is fired in a Hornet rechambered to a chamber with minimum body taper and a lot sharper shoulder angle. Usually the shoulder will be in the 35-40 degree. The parent cartridge has a long tapered shoulder that is 5 degree 38 min. which is bad for case life even with a cartridge head spacing on the rim which a Hornet does. Hornet brass is not very good brass and is very thin and easily crushed if not careful on sizing or seating the bullets. Case life is not the best with the Hornet. If you are speaking of a K that means after the initial fire forming of the standard case it becomes a cartridge that requires reloading.
I honestly feel the CZ 527 is a far more accurate rifle than the Ruger from my experience with the 77/22 Hornet I had and the CZ Hornet. My Ruger was pretty dismal in the accuracy I got whether factory ammo or reloaded. The CZ has a far better trigger with the single set trigger. The Ruger trigger can be made better but not as good as CZ 527 trigger.The mini-Mauser style action also feels better to me. My feelings is the far better cartridge over the Hornet is the Remington 222 available in the 527. Much better designed case for better accuracy and far easier to reload if that is in your plans. Accuracy of the 222 put it in the front in accuracy for benchrest shooting from it's introduction in 1950 and kept it there for years until the invention of the 6 PPC. If the technology that was put in to the development of the PPC cartridge, especially the very uniform brass of the PPC, the 222 would still hold it's own in the accuracy game. Some still do. My Sako PPC's never shot as well as my Remington 700 Varmint rifles. The muzzle blast is not much different from the two cartridges. The Hornet is a little less. If you fire both in barrels at the Super 14 Contender length they both will ring your ears with out hearing protection. Sorry, I got a little off track here. This is just my opinion based on my experience with both cartridges and both brands of rifles. YMMV

[Sir Henry]

Sir Henry, Your title says K Hornet (Lysle Kilbourn version) which is the improved version of the factory ............cartridges and both brands of rifles. YMMV

Thanks. I read more about it after I posted. How accurate was your CZ?

[cooperhawk]

I admit I am biased. I always try to buy American. Having said that I have a lot of experience with Rugers. My first was a No 1 Standard in .243 which I used for varmints and deer. My second is a .22 Swift R77V which I then used for Varmints. My third is a No 1 Light Sporter that is now my deer rifle. I also have a 10/22 and a No 3 in .22 Hornet.

In my experience in firing thousands of rounds the Rugers have performed very well. One thing I have found is the high powered ones did not group well out of the box. I had to tune them and once I had developed a load for each they were tack drivers. Not sure if everyone understands what I mean with tuning, but if there is an interest I will explain.

The only one I still do not own is the .243 who a good friend fell in love with. He still owns it.

Now I am as fanatical about Henry's.

[Sir Henry]

Yes please explain.

[cooperhawk]

Sorry about that double post. I only wanted to add to my first one.

[cooperhawk]

Yes please explain.

OK. With each cartridge I go to the books and find the powder, bullet and loadings for the velocity I want. Then I start with a few grains down from that loading, and work my way up to a few grains above. I load four cartridges for each grain amount. I load four because in my experience one out of four will be a flier. I ignore that one and look at the closest three.

Next I prepare a target board. I usually use a larger piece of cardboard, (I have one beside me now that I am working up for a .308), and I use a marker to make individual squares, one for each grain loading. I then place a bullseye sticker in each square and using the marker I write the grain amount under each bullseye.

Then it's quite simple. I go to the range and take my time firing each grain loading at the prescribed square, letting the barrel cool between each set. I measure the closest three hits.

A rifle barrel is like a tuning fork, and when it is fired it vibrates. The trick is to get the bullet to exit at the same point of oscillation each time. You will see bullet patterns expand and contract each time you fire a different loading. Pick the one that has the closest group at the velocity closest to the one you desire.

You have now tuned a rifle.

I kinda feel like I'm preaching to the choir and a lot of you already knew all this. Sorry.

[Shakey Jake]

I got a Ruger M77 22 Hornet from a friend last December. It shoots really well and doesn't take a lot of powder to reload. My is very accurate at 50 yards. I've not pushed it past that on the shooting range. It's fun gun to shoot.
Jake

[Sir Henry]

I kind of knew it but don’t have any practical experience. When I reloaded it was all mil-spec in 5.56Nato, 7.62Nato and 9mm.

I like shooting from sandbags to dampen the vibrations. I also sometimes will lightly touch the barrel with my finger. I’ve been told that’s stupid but it seems to work for me.

When you reload the bullet do you have trouble seating it straight?

[Sir Henry]

Sorry about that double post. I only wanted to add to my first one.

You hit quote not edit. I deleted it which you can also do yourself. I’ve hit quote instead of edit dozens of time myself.

[Sir Henry]

I got a Ruger M77 22 Hornet from a friend last December. It shoots really well and doesn't take a lot of powder to reload. My is very accurate at 50 yards. I've not pushed it past that on the shooting range. It's fun gun to shoot.
Jake

What scope do you have on it?

[Sir Henry]

My friend is now hinting he may loan me the rifle long term. Like for the rest of my life and he gets it back when I’m pushing up daises.

[cooperhawk]

When you reload the bullet do you have trouble seating it straight?

Hornets like any small cartridge can be troublesome seating the bullet. I do carefully bell out the mouth so that the bullet
sets down in the opening just a bit. That seems to work. The downside to that is expanding and contracting the brass wears it out sooner.
They will eventually crack at the mouth. I sometimes anneal them to prolong their life.

I am speaking from past experience as the last couple of years I have not had the time to play around with it.

[cooperhawk]

Sorry about that double post. I only wanted to add to my first one.

You hit quote not edit. I deleted it which you can also do yourself. I’ve hit quote instead of edit dozens of time myself.

Thank you.

[BigAl52]

Let me know if you get the 22 Hornet Gene. I have a set of Lyman 22 Hornet dies in new condition I will send you. I have no use for them. I played with both the Hornet and the K Hornet at one time. patience is key when loading for either as like Bandit says the brass is thin.

[North Country Gal]

Gene, I love the 22 Hornet and have owned a 22 Hornet in a variety of guns, including both the CZ and the Ruger and, of course, the Contender. The 22 Hornet has sometimes been called the reloadable 22 mag based on its approximate power level, but I think that underrates the cartridge in terms of its power and when it comes to accuracy, no way will the typical 22 mag keep up with the Hornet.

I would caution you, though, that the 22 Hornet is a reloader's cartridge, these days. Factory ammo is expensive and the higher grade 22 Hornet varmint ammo, extremely so. And that's when you can find it. Even in the best of times, availability has been spotty and with the current ammo shortages, even more so.

If you don't want to reload, the 223 is still your most practical choice in a 22 centerfire. It's the cheapest centerfire cartridge if you go with factory ammo and any place that sells ammo will have some, at least in normal times. Accuracy in a CZ, even with the cheap bulk stuff, is very good. I personally see no reason to go K on the 22 Hornet to up its velocity when you can save yourself a lot of headaches and just go with the 223 or even the 222. (Love the little 222, but the 223 has really put the hurt on its popularity. Very soft shooting round, though with superb accuracy.)

When we got out of reloading for lack of time, some years back, I sold off both the Ruger and CZ in 22 Hornet because factory ammo was just too expensive. A 223 in CZ 527 and a 223 in Low Wall single shot take care of my 22 centerfire shooting, now.

The comments on the CZ and Ruger are spot on. It took a lot of work on my Ruger 77/22 Hornet to get it up to speed. Not that I minded, because it really is a nice rifle with a lot of character. I had to shim the two-piece bolt to improve the lockup, I had to do a trigger job and, especially, I had to play with the torque setting on the action bolt, which is very typical of all Ruger bolt guns. Even then, the gun was a bit fussy as to how it was rested on the bag.

The CZ was good to go, out of the box, with nothing more than adjusting the factory trigger to my preferences. By the way, on the CZ 527 set trigger, you can adjust the standard trigger to be superb, though it will require you to take the gun apart. If you do, there is definitely a trick for getting it back together at times, but jut holler if you run into problems.

Given the going price on the 77/22 Hornet versus the CZ, my vote is the CZ in terms of features. For what you will spend, it's the better value. I like both rifles, but you will absolutely have to do a trigger job on the Ruger (I added a Jard) to keep up with the CZ factory trigger. On the other hand, the Ruger 77/22 Hornet, as noted, is US made and a very nice gun. Much prefer that rotary mag to the CZ 527 mag setup.

[Sir Henry]

Thanks Joanie, I was eagerly waiting your thoughts. I want the CZ however if my friend loans his Ruger to me I’ll go with that. He also reloads and he said he already has 500 loaded or will by the time I hit Texas.

He has also done a lot to it as he is a gunsmith and was trained by the Army to be small arms repair. He is still in and is an E7 so he no longer does it but instead is in charge of brigade supplies which includes firearms. Only difference is he is in charge of about 50 men who does the actual repairs.

[Sir Henry]

Let me know if you get the 22 Hornet Gene. I have a set of Lyman 22 Hornet dies in new condition I will send you. I have no use for them. I played with both the Hornet and the K Hornet at one time. patience is key when loading for either as like Bandit says the brass is thin.

I’m thinking I’m not going to reload these but thanks for the offer.

[North Country Gal]

Gene, that is too good an offer to pass up. That's quite a friend. You'll love that Ruger and that's a lot of ammo, to boot. Congrats.

[Sir Henry]

Gene, that is too good an offer to pass up. That's quite a friend. You'll love that Ruger and that's a lot of ammo, to boot. Congrats.

Thanks Joanie, he will end up with all my firearms.

I shot it the same day as my .17HMR CZ American and was impressed with the trigger so that is saying something. My CZ outshot it but it had a much better scope on it. I felt the Ruger shot straighter but wasn’t aimed as good. Accuracy wasn’t a fair comparison however the trigger assessment was.

On a side note I stopped at the lgs near the range and the only ammo he had was the 17 and some 22 longs. No centerfire at all.