Big Boy X .44 Mag lifter hangs on next round

[John E Davies]

This is disappointing, I took the lever and bolt out, cleaned it, lubed it. Tightened screws (the side gate screw was 1/2 turn from seated). Cleaned the inside of the mag inner tube. Added a Ranger Point rail, bore sighted my scope, and when I tried cycling ammo through it, it is a complete jammo-matic. I could not find the new snap caps I bought so I was using live ammo outside, carefully. The ammo was factory 240 gr JSP. I know where the problem is, I just cannot figure out if there is a fix other than sending the gun back.

The lifter drops smoothly, the round slides into place, the lifter starts to rise on the back stroke, and then the front of the lifter hangs up hard on the bottom rim of the next round in the tube. Every time.

The only way I can get it to free up is to reach in through the ejection port with a little screwdriver, and push the next round slightly forward. The lifter pops free and will then lift the round up to the chamber. The only binding occurs at that point. The round sitting on the lifter flops around, so I know it isn’t the problem.... Ammo OAL is right at 1.61.

I have owned a lever action before and know that you have to work the lever firmly and quickly. I just can’t get any of the rearward strokes to work at all, it just jams hard.

Should there be a steep bevel on the front of the lifter, so it cannot hang up? Would Henry send me a new one? Should I grind on it? I am perfectly comfortable working on the insides, I have been a (very) amateur smith for thirty years. I just need some guidance on this one....

Comments?

BTW I did verify that this gun has a 1:20 twist rate. Woohoo. Now all I need is for it is to actually function.

Thanks.

John Davies
Spokane WA

[BigAl52]

I know it isnt what you want to do but Id call Henry and let them fix it.

[Mistered]

Should I grind on it?

NO!

BUT if you have identified the problem as the lifter then some 'judicious' oil STONING of the face/front of it is not out of the question. I CRINGE when I read the term 'grind' (or file) when referencing gun repairs. I had to do some minor stoning on the lifter of my BBB .357 to eliminate a little 'hang up' on cycling.

I too am a 'shade tree' gunsmith and have resolved many gun problems myself - including having fabricated parts for a variety along the way.

One cannot own classic, vintage firearms without being able to deal with problems or repairs as needed!

[Vaquero]

One cannot own classic, vintage firearms without being able to deal with problems or repairs as needed!

Exactly.

RP

[JEBar]

I suggest you call Henry and give them the info you have posted here .... in some cased they will send replace parts, in others they will recommend the rifle be returned to them .... I wasn't happy about having to return ours but they solved the problem .... as a result, I'm less reluctant to send it back again if that should ever be necessary

[John E Davies]

Thanks for the comments, I said "grind" because simple stoning won't fix this.... I found my snap caps and tested them, with 6 loaded in the tube.

The first two cycled beautifully, the third jammed up so tight that I had to remove the inner tube and drive the stuck round out into the receiver with a big brass rod- it would not go back into the outer tube. It took a few minutes to free it up.

IMG_0754 copy.jpg

IMG_0756 copy.jpg

IMG_0757 copy.jpg

In that second pic, does the lifter look correct? Could it be bent up?

I will go ahead and file a claim. Now I have to take off the rail, so they won't lose it.... ;(

EDIT: I got a return authorization 5 hours later, and the rifle is all boxed and ready to go with a Henry prepaid UPS label.

FYI: they suggest that you use the original Henry box and add a "wrap" of fresh cardboard so no firearm labels are showing. You can't drop the package off at any old UPS Store, it has to be either a scheduled pickup with an established UPS account, or drop off at a Customer Service Center attached to a distribution center. Around here their hours are severely limited, for example M, Th, F 12:45PM to 5:15 PM, and the latest time for shipping that day is 3:00 PM. It makes it difficult if you can't get there right after lunch.... I am going by there and drop it off tomorrow so the package has a head start over the weekend.

IMG_0768.jpg

John Davies
Spokane WA

[Mags]

.
An opinion some of us share.

As much as I like my 2 Henry rifles, my 30-30 lever gun does cycle rough and you can't baby it. It does not jam as yet and hopefully it will smooth out with use. Henry spends considerable time perfecting fit and finish, so I am surprised that they evidently don't cycle 5-10 dummy rounds thru the action in the qc process, prior to shipping. If they had, this problem would have surfaced and should have been corrected. Henry makes fine rifles for the most part but one would expect these problems to be caught during production. Just my opinion.

[Mistered]

so I am surprised that they evidently don't cycle 5-10 dummy rounds thru the action in the qc process

Most likely the only ammo run through the guns during production are those test fired and they are probably singly loaded and not cycled.

I suspect QC is limited and random with the position of taking care of problems 'after the fact'. The large numbers of them reported as being sent back are evidence of this.

[Mags]

.
I suspect the only functional QC check is their test firing. The reliability testing looks like it's left to the customer. So far Henry rifle 'after the fact' problems hasn't hurt Henry, likely because other firearm makers current production aren't any better.

Random qc sampling may work well for a single shot production line but not for a mechanism that relies on multiple moving interrelated parts. This gun would be a perfect Alaskan guide firearm of choice, but not if unreliable. Companies that take care of problems 'after the fact' will eventually seal their own fate.

[John E Davies]

I just looked at my H009CC a little closer and even though not a side gate, it appears that the carrier sits a little higher than center when the lever is open, relying on the magazine spring to push round onto the carrier, allowing the carrier to follow the contour of the loading bullet untill it catches on the face of rim of the next round,and not under it as your picture shows. The carrier appears to be traveling too low and getting under the rim of the next round. I would be afraid to attempt a self fix and voiding a warranty and you made the right choice to let them straighten it out. Let us know how you make out.

Thanks that is informative, can you try to get a pic similar to the one I posted, showing the highest position of the carrier relative to the chamber mouth? I used my cell phone camera with flash, but I also lit the area directly with a strong flashlight. Maybe we can see a difference.

John Davies
Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

I appreciate the pics, I was hoping for one showing the lifter fully “lifted” up to show it in relation to the chamber opening. That would be an indicator of whether or not mine is bent up or deformed. I think mine is too high in relation to the feed ramp, but I have no simple way to verify that. See this annotated pic:

70B933C1-935C-408A-8FBB-C977CCE02852.jpeg

Thanks,

John Davies
Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

OK, cool, I think my lifter is bent up....... Maybe I did that by struggling with the lever too much when it was jamming....? How hard can you reef on the lever without bending or tweaking those smaller internal parts?

It seems as if there should be a “fuse”/ torque limiter in the system, an easy to replace part or shear pin that will simply fail completely - SNAP - if stressed beyond normal limits. Is there one? If you own a snow blower you know exactly what I am talking about....

John Davies
Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

Henry has fixed my gun, apparently, and sent it off by UPS today (Friday). I will get it next Wednesday. They received it late last Wednesday, a TWO day turnaround... That is pretty amazing service considering the virus situation. My “Customer Portal” warranty page does not have any corrective action listed, I guess I will have to wait and see what is on the repair order in the box.

John Davies
Spokane WA

[JEBar]

while they come as no surprise, such positive reports are always great to hear .... looking forward to your range and use impressions once you have her back

[Mags]

.
You can email ask. They answered me when I did for my repair.

... warranty page does not have any corrective action listed, I guess I will have to wait and see what is on the repair order in the box.

John Davies
Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

Got my BBX back today. I found a note in the box, they “replaced the lever and inner mag tube, adjusted carrier and side gate, polished feed ramps and checked over rifle”.

I loaded up my dummy rounds and they cycle through like butter, snick snick snick. I haven’t tried any other ammo. The side gate is a little easier to use, I did mention that issue. It is still pretty stiff and awkward.

One thing puzzles me, why change the lever? And look at these pics, there are two ground down areas that are obviously done by the smith, since they were raw and rather nasty looking IMHO. I dressed them with a flat stone and blued the steel to prevent any future rusting.

53B42BDB-F7A4-45D6-891A-98865494CDB4.jpeg

3407D162-9E85-4278-B5B0-8ACE3F5B6A06.jpeg

Any ideas what those extra things are for?

Also, I checked the trigger with my Lyman gauge and I am not real happy, but the gun is not going back for this....

4C2F0106-0C38-49BA-8FA7-6AFFCEE9DFEC.jpeg

I can’t access a range to test the rifle, everything is locked down tight.

Finally, no gift was included, though I was excited to see a Henry card envelope, but inside, all it said was thank you, no prize or discount card. I wouldn’t have minded a Henry ball cap....

John Davies
Spokane WA

[azdover]

Saw this post while scanning through the forum while waiting for my account to get activated. Have the same situation in the same rifle. Unfortunately, I got my 44 Mag about the same time the OP got his back from Henry and by the time I discovered the problem, Henry has been temporarily shutdown. I've been in touch with customer service by email and they are aware of the problem. I'm sure they'll help out when things are safe enough for them to return to work.

Meanwhile, while looking at all the moving parts, I noticed where the lever raises the carrier when cycling it. I started to wonder (which is normally a bad thing) if the lever could raise the carrier just a little more, would it prevent the jam by the next round in the magazine tube. I almost reached for the JB Weld but then noticed a roll of blue painters tape on the board. With nothing better to do with all my free time, I added a couple of pieces to the lever as shown in the picture below. No more jams! Surprising how a couple of pieces of tape measuring .009" thick helped. By no means a permanent solution but it looks like there may be a solution in sight. Meantime, I've switched the masking tape for some aluminum foil duct tape figuring it might be a little more durable. I've cycled the lever at least one hundred times and so far the foil has not worn out and the rifle functions perfectly during the load and ejection sequence. Again, not a permanent fix, but it will do for now. I may just have to social distance myself out into the desert and give it a try.

Be safe,
Pete

[Mags]

..
Great discovery! They might already know what the problem is, but maybe share your finding with Henry CS anyway.

...

[BigAl52]

AZDover where are you at in AZ

[azdover]

AZDover where are you at in AZ

North part of Phoenix.