Recoil

Post by **RanchRoper** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:38 pm

Wasn't sure what thread to put this in so put it here. I read somewhere recently that the crescent butt plate (gorgeous design by the way) is designed to be placed further out against your arm and not so much tucked into your shoulder. Supposedly not as hard on the shoulder. Interesting if true, I think I tuck my 1860 in tight but there is not much recoil with 45 Colt anyway. However, for the 45-70 shooters this would be an issue I'm sure. I know lots use pads and rubber.

Maybe you guys already know this but just found it interesting, and if you don't already know it maybe give it a try and give us some feedback.

Mistered · Post by **Mistered** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:46 pm

maybe give it a try and give us some feedback.

I just tried this with one of my crescent buttplatted WInchesters and I wouldn't be able to shoot it that way.
It takes away from natural 'feel' of bringing it to my shoulder.

As long as I keep the butt snug to my shoulder it's not too bad but I don't load 'full house' .30-30 ammo so no issue.

Funny story however. When I got my 'Buffalo Bill' Commemorative it came with a box of ammo from 1968 with two rounds missing. Well, I decided to shoot the 18 up for the brass and these were 170 grain bullets.

All I can say is I am glad I only had 18 as I don't think I could have shot any more! They were brutal ! The 20" carbine with the crescent buttplate was bad enough but it is a well known fact factory ammo today (especially for calibers that have been around for a long time) is not loaded anymore to the levels of 'older' ammo.

Post by **fortyshooter** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:56 pm

I too have read where the crescent butt plate can be painful in the larger calibers.
My Uberti/Wichester 1873 like you said doesn't bother me in mild .45 Colt loads which this gun was designed for.

However when I selected my 1885 High Wall .45-70 I made sure to get the one with the flat butt plate and I also add a pad/cushion to it
when shooting heavier loads.

Post by **RanchRoper** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:06 pm

This for example is a gorgeous rifle however in 45-70....OUCH. Unless you had a way of holding it so that it doesn't punish your shoulder...I guess with 45-70 most are not putting 50 rounds through the rifle every outing either.

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda ... maple.html

The High Wall I am waiting for is only 45 Colt as well and has a full crescent butt plate so won't be an issue. I will try to hold my Henry different next time and see what that feels like. I do like the feel of it tucked in tight.

Post by **JEBar** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:37 pm

RanchRoper wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:06 pm
This for example is a gorgeous rifle however in 45-70....OUCH. Unless you had a way of holding it so that it doesn't punish your shoulder...I guess with 45-70 most are not putting 50 rounds through the rifle every outing either.

OUCH indeed .... the 45-70 is a very different animal

Mistered · Post by **Mistered** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:43 pm

OUCH indeed .... the 45-70 is a very different animal

Again I believe ya!

.45-70 is one caliber I have NEVER had the opportunity to shoot!

Ojaileveraction · Post by **Ojaileveraction** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:09 pm

I place my Zane Grey 30-30 and Win '92 357 both w crescent but plates on the ball of my shoulder.
The flat buts are held more inside the shoulder.
45-70 dose not have to be punishing to be effective.

Post by **JEBar** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:12 pm

Mistered wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:43 pm
Again I believe ya!

.45-70 is one caliber I have NEVER had the opportunity to shoot!

how about dropping in on Evans KC gathering in August .... I'll be delighted to bring one for you to send as many rounds down range as you like

Post by **RanchRoper** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:14 pm

Now there's an offer you don't get every day.

Mistered · Post by **Mistered** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:26 pm

how about dropping in on Evans KC gathering in August

That would be nice if I were a whole bunch closer!

Post by **fortyshooter** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:07 pm

Here's a good comparison of my 1873 Winchester .45 Colt and my .45-70 High Wall. Not the best pic but you can see the shape of butt stock.
13-14 gr. of Unique with a 405 gr. bullet can make an all day High Wall shooter even without the butt pad.

I keep the pad on the High Wall for use with hotter ammo and so I don't loose track of it.

Post by **BigAl52** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:28 pm

That Pedersoli you post RR weights 11 pounds. Its not going to be as bad as the Henry's or some of the others. That weight will take up some of that recoil. I shot 45-70 in an 1874 Sharps quite a bit in BPCR and it wasnt as bad.

Post by **RanchRoper** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:24 pm

Good point about the weight and heavy barrel.

Post by **JEBar** » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:48 am

guess it could be my imagination but from firing big game hunting level loads out of mostly 50, with some 58 caliber thrown in, black powder rifles, the recoil seems to be more of a push than a punch .... for me, harsh recoil wasn't a concern with Black Powder

Mistered · Post by **Mistered** » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:17 am

the recoil seems to be more of a push than a punch

I think most BP shooters will agree with this and I do as well from my own experience shooting .54 & .58 caliber.

I believe the lower pressure of BP over smokeless is reason for the 'push' rather than the 'punch' and I am sure the same applies when shooting a cartridge round ( such as the .45-70) loaded with BP as opposed to smokeless.

Post by **mlrifleNY** » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:45 am

That is the way I have been shooting my muzzleloaders for over 40 years. Off the arm, It just feels so natural for me. I have not shot my 45/70 that way. I have been shooting my 1860 off the arm though.

Jim

Post by **RanchRoper** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:46 pm

I shouldered my Henry where arm meets shoulder and not in tight on shoulder. It felt ok. Will try to shoot it that way and see if any improvement in accuracy. Also put my stock cover back on as it sits fine if I don't shoulder so tight. I like the cover but was having trouble with position on shoulder. Maybe this will work better. Will let you know. Might send first 2020 lead flying tomorrow.

Post by **JEBar** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:03 pm

RanchRoper wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:46 pm
I shouldered my Henry where arm meets shoulder and not in tight on shoulder. It felt ok. Will try to shoot it that way and see if any improvement in accuracy.

interesting concept but I admit I'm having a bit of problem visualizing it .... looking forward to your observations and assessments

Post by **RanchRoper** » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:06 pm

It's not a real big change. Can't speak for others but I tuck in real tight almost inside the shoulder. However if I move it just a little so it cradles right in the groove where bicep and shoulder meet, it feels ok and fits snug. Think that's what they are talking about with crescent stock design. Will let you know, maybe it sucks on the target board!

Post by **North Country Gal** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:29 am

I've heard the same thing about crescent butt plates being placed more out on the arm that tucked into the shoulder, the way we have all been taught to shoot. I've tried it out on the arm, but didn't care for it. Just not for me.

As for recoil, uh, yeah, pretty bad when you get up to a 45-70. Been there, done that one with a Browning 1886. Wonderful, wonderful rifle, but the only way I could shoot it with that crescent was to stick an ugly rubber slip on recoil pad. Would have gone to a slip on leather pad for the sake of looks, but those were the days when we decided to get out of reloading and going factory for 45-70 ammo was not within our budget. We're not that rich. Sold the gun.

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