Semi Buckhorn sights in low light condition

[sewells1951]

New rifle owner here. Just bought a H024 30 30, the new model with both sidegate and tube loading. It's a gorgeous rifle and I like shooting it. But, I'm having some trouble developing the accuracy I want with the iron sights that come with the rifle.

I shoot at an outdoors public shooting complex near me that is a great facility but the shooting stations are under a roof. In that shadowed environment, I'm having trouble getting and keeping clear focus on the ivory pip of the front sight in the rear semi buckhorn. I didn't really know that was my problem until one day the range was busy and I got assigned a shooting station out in full daylight. Wow! The ivory pip "popped" in full light and I was able to focus on it far better with a concomitant increase in my accuracy.

I really want to keep the iron sights because I think they allow me to acquire a target faster than I could do with putting on a low power scope. I also like the idea of the semi buckhorn being something that, with experience, I will learn to adjust elevation by feel for shooting various distances.

So, I'd really like to learn to use the sights that came with the rifle the right way. I know the buckhorn sights have been around forever so I figure that there's a lot of people that have learned the ins and outs of dealing with them in less than ideal lighting conditions.

Hopefully someone out there has some tricks or tips that can help me out with getting clear focus on the front sight in lower light conditions.

Thanks in advance for any useful info.

[CT_Shooter]

Welcome to the forum from CT. Glad you joined us; there are lots of very helpful and knowledgeable folks here.

The lighting conditions most certainly do influence your aim. I eventually swapped the semi-buckhorn rear sights on my Henrys for Skinner peeps sights and discovered a noticeable difference in my ability to focus on the front sight. With more time shooting yours at that range, you may eventually adjust to the low light levels and become satisfied with your aim using the sights it came with.

Keep us posted.

New rifle owner here. Just bought a H024 30 30, the new model with both sidegate and tube loading.

[North Country Gal]

Our outdoor range also has an overhead roof at the rifle stations, so I have the same problem with lighting when shooting open sights. Can't do much about moving my shooting position out into the light, but one thing that does help for me is shooting on a day of good light for the sake of seeing the target, better.

As CT mentions, there are better sights for shooting when setup under a shadow, though. Much easier for me to see a sharp blade front sight than a small bead front sight under those conditions.

[JEBar]

first, welcome to our forum .... delighted to have you join us .... feel free to read/jump in and participate in ongoing conversations; as well as, to start more of your own .... one thing I've done in the past to help me see a front sight bead is to paint it with some high gloss, florescent nail polish .... with some, white worked best .... for others orange or green .... one advantage is, the paint is easy to remove .... there are aftermarket sources of high visibility sights and I'm sure some of our folks will come along with more info on them .... be sure to follow the link below to our How Many ? thread where you will be able to add your Henry rife to our community's total ....



http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.p ... 74#p115574

[220]

Just my 2c worth but I would look at increasing the light gap which means opening up the rear sight.
Without a decent light gap it is very hard to see how well the front sight is positioned in the rear sight in poor light.
It sounds counter intuitive that a larger gap around the front sight will increase accuracy but you only need to look at how much light gap there is with a peep arrangement to see that it does work.

[Mags]

.
Welcome from the TV, Oregon.

New rifle owner here...

[Rifletom]

Welcome to the forum. People here will help you figure things out you may have trouble with. 220's suggestion is some good advice. I've done the same, but, as I age with somewhat weaker eyes, I've had to resort to low magnification scopes: 1-3 or 1.5-4.5. Might be worth a try on what 220 mentioned. Good luck and again, welcome.

[Ernie]

Welcome to the forum. Like iron sights but with age I find peep sights help as CT mentions. Never have shot a rifle at an indoor range so I have no suggestions, sorry.

[markiver54]

Welcome to the forum. People here will help you figure things out you may have trouble with. 220's suggestion is some good advice. I've done the same, but, as I age with somewhat weaker eyes, I've had to resort to low magnification scopes: 1-3 or 1.5-4.5. Might be worth a try on what 220 mentioned. Good luck and again, welcome.

Makes sense to me!

[sewells1951]

Welcome to the forum. People here will help you figure things out you may have trouble with. 220's suggestion is some good advice. I've done the same, but, as I age with somewhat weaker eyes, I've had to resort to low magnification scopes: 1-3 or 1.5-4.5. Might be worth a try on what 220 mentioned. Good luck and again, welcome.

Well, I tried a scope. A good one. I wasn't much more accurate than I was with the iron sights. But it did tell me something that I couldn't see using the buckhorn sights. With the reticle on the bullseye at 3 X at 100 yards, I could see that I wobble. The reticle was moving around over the bullseye almost at random, like Brownian motion. That was translating into inaccuracy because I never quite knew where the actual aim point was when I hit the break point on the trigger. So, what I need to do I think is to focus on how to hold my aim steady.

I mounted the scope using rings that lifted the scope up enough that I can still use the buckhorn sights if I prefer to do that. But, I think I'll take the scope off. I really want to get better with the iron sights.

Or maybe I'm chasing a pipedream here. Basically, shooting Remington Core Lockt 150 grain .30 30 ammo I'm putting 5 shots within say a 7 inch square at 100 yards with iron sights. Maybe that's about as good as I can get unless I'm using some sort of gun rest that keeps things more stable.

[GFK]

First, welcome. I have a H009, and I wanted to do a similar thing (shoot fairly accurately out to 100 yards using an open sight). I have settled for a Cloverleaf Receiver Peep Sight with fiber optic from Ranger Point Precision. So far, I have zeroed it at 25 yards. But, I am happy thus far. The thing I noticed is that the optic helps with aligning the front sight in sun light, and the clover helps aligning the front sight in artificial light (light bulb). I suspect that it will do fairly well in low light also.

[JEBar]

I have a strong respect for folks who can shoot small groups, off hand, at 100 yards .... given perfect conditions, I have and would again take a 25 or possibly 50 yard shot at deer standing broadside .... at a hundred, I'd be hard pressed to pull the trigger .... for me the possibility of a not lethal hit would just be too great

[220]

Or maybe I'm chasing a pipedream here. Basically, shooting Remington Core Lockt 150 grain .30 30 ammo I'm putting 5 shots within say a 7 inch square at 100 yards with iron sights. Maybe that's about as good as I can get unless I'm using some sort of gun rest that keeps things more stable.

Certainly nothing to be ashamed about in fact I would say probably better than 90% of people can do off hand regardless of if they are using a scope or open sights.
I shoot as well if not better using open sights offhand than I do with a scope. Shooting off hand the accuracy limiting factor is not the sights but how well I can hold. My hold is the same with both but with open sights the wobble isnt as noticeable so I squeeze the trigger. With a scope and the noticeable wobble it shows up I find I have a tendency to start snatching at the trigger when everything thing looks good and it actually leads to worse results.

To put things in perspective with a accurate scoped rifle off the bench I have no trouble shooting 1/4-1/2" groups at 100y if I can shoot a 6" group with the same rifle off hand I am happy.

[GFK]

To put things in perspective with a accurate scoped rifle off the bench I have no trouble shooting 1/4-1/2" groups at 100y if I can shoot a 6" group with the same rifle off hand I am happy.

I was thinking something similar. Isn't a 6" area considered the sweet spot of a deer?

[PT7]

One of who knows how many commentaries on a deer's "sweet spot."

The Kill Zone of North American Big Game Animals
By Chuck Hawks

How big a target is the heart/lung area of common male big game animals? That is a good thing to know if you are a hunter. The heart/lung that should be your target is irregularly shaped in three dimensions, of course, but for hunting purposes can be expressed as a circle within which you must be able to put your bullet to insure a clean kill on an animal standing more or less broadside to your shooting position.

For example, an average whitetail deer weighing about 125 pounds, viewed broadside, has a heart/lung area generally estimated give you a circle of around 10" in diameter at which to shoot. If you can keep your bullet in a 10" diameter circle from a field position and you aim just behind the foreleg and about 1/2 of the way up from his brisket (or 1/2 of the way down from the top of his back), which basically marks the center of his heart/lung area, your bullet should find the animal's vitals.

~I was thinking something similar. Isn't a 6" area considered the sweet spot of a deer?

[markiver54]

To put things in perspective with a accurate scoped rifle off the bench I have no trouble shooting 1/4-1/2" groups at 100y if I can shoot a 6" group with the same rifle off hand I am happy.

I was thinking something similar. Isn't a 6" area considered the sweet spot of a deer?

I would think, most certainly!

[GFK]

Inquiring minds want to know:

This may not be to scale, something I got for practice. But, it does offer an idea. My 6" sweet spot may be a little small. The sweet spot may be closer to 8"-10". Yet, I may have been thinking that I am all good if I shoot within 6",which I can do with a scope (the bottom one is 6" x 5", adjusted aim after first shot). I am waiting for it to get warmer to see what I can do with open sights (@ 100 yards). However, I did make it out to the woods once so far (only seen one as I was parking). If God is willing, I may get out again before the season end.

SweetSpot.JPG (175.68 KiB) Viewed 5211 times

KillZone-100yds.jpg (109.63 KiB) Viewed 5211 times

[PT7]

Early on in this Forum, there was a good discussion thread titled "Shooting With Iron Sights." The OP, Ditto1958, introduced it with some interesting commentary. The thread then took off with others' good input.

http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=269

PT7

I really want to keep the iron sights because I think they allow me to acquire a target faster than I could do with putting on a low power scope. I also like the idea of the semi buckhorn being something that, with experience, I will learn to adjust elevation by feel for shooting various distances....So, I'd really like to learn to use the sights that came with the rifle the right way.

[sewells1951]

Or maybe I'm chasing a pipedream here. Basically, shooting Remington Core Lockt 150 grain .30 30 ammo I'm putting 5 shots within say a 7 inch square at 100 yards with iron sights. Maybe that's about as good as I can get unless I'm using some sort of gun rest that keeps things more stable.

Certainly nothing to be ashamed about in fact I would say probably better than 90% of people can do off hand regardless of if they are using a scope or open sights.
I shoot as well if not better using open sights offhand than I do with a scope. Shooting off hand the accuracy limiting factor is not the sights but how well I can hold. My hold is the same with both but with open sights the wobble isnt as noticeable so I squeeze the trigger. With a scope and the noticeable wobble it shows up I find I have a tendency to start snatching at the trigger when everything thing looks good and it actually leads to worse results.

To put things in perspective with a accurate scoped rifle off the bench I have no trouble shooting 1/4-1/2" groups at 100y if I can shoot a 6" group with the same rifle off hand I am happy.

Don't want to give the wrong impression here. I'm at a public shooting complex and shooting off a bench. Far from off hand shooting. Off hand shooting is for after I learn how to do it with a platform upon which I can stablize myself. So far, I do good to hit a 12" x12" target at all when I've tried shooting off hand.

[sewells1951]

Early on in this Forum, there was a good discussion thread titled "Shooting With Iron Sights." The OP, Ditto1958, introduced it with some interesting commentary. The thread then took off with others' good input.

http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=269

PT7

I really want to keep the iron sights because I think they allow me to acquire a target faster than I could do with putting on a low power scope. I also like the idea of the semi buckhorn being something that, with experience, I will learn to adjust elevation by feel for shooting various distances....So, I'd really like to learn to use the sights that came with the rifle the right way.

Thanks very, very much for that link. Good info there. THis bit "2. Use the sights correctly. Here's the thing: the rear sight, front sight and target are not all supposed to be in focus at the same time. I'll repeat that, because it's the key to the whole thing: the rear sight, front sight and target are not all supposed to be in focus at the same time." is fine by me. I understand that. My problem is I can't get focus on the front sight in low light. I'm going to try the suggestion another poster made and paint that little white pip with some flourescent nail polish and see if that helps.

That is a great link!


The correct way to do it is to focus on the front sight. The rear sight should then be out of focus. The target, will not be in perfect focus. Depending on it's distance and the lighting where you are shooting, this will vary. On a sunny day, the target may actually look acceptably in focus. On a cloudy day, not so much.