Sheep

[220]

Have around 100 breeding ewes a bit of a mix of breeds with mainly white dorper but also some australian white and dorpers as well as crosses from the three. All are shedding meat breeds so dont require shearing.
My rams are getting a little a bit of age on them so have been looking for a new addition, ram sales are in full swing here in Aus currently and some insane amounts being paid. Earlier in the week an Australian White ram sold for $240,000 well out of my price range but I picked up a nice white dorper ram yesterday for a $2,500.

Trying something a little different this time and relied heavily on Australian Standard Breed Values (ASBV's) in making our selection. If you are familiar with estimated breeding values with cattle it is very similar. Animals are recorded for things like weaning weight, post weaning weight, fat depth, eye muscle area etc. The heritability of all these traits are known so the increase in production in offspring can be calculated. Given we retain a percentage of females as breeders the best performance index for us to use is the Maternal Carcase Production index, (MCP) also takes into account things like maternal weaning weight so how much heavier on average lambs from the daughters will be due to better milk production and maternal environment, the number of lambs weaned etc.
The ram we purchased has a MCP of 149.6 that means he should offer a 49.6% increase in productivity. It is a little deceptive as the 100% mark referenced is the average when the index was started over 30 years ago, the average ram currently in the index has a MCP of about 130. Still the ram we purchased does rank in the top 5% of all rams recorded. A lot of studs dont performance record and really it is probably only the top end of animals that make it into the data base so I feel the current average across all animals is probably closer to 100 than 130.
The sire of the ram we purchased is currently the number one ranked ram of all time on the MCP index.

Time will tell if it was the right decision, given our breeding program should have lambs on the ground in about 9 months. The selection wasnt totally based on ASBV we used them to narrow the list of possible rams significantly then made the final selection on appearance, how well the moved and the normal things you would use if visually selecting.

Ram is currently still 400 miles away while we organize transport but will put a few photos once he is home.
If you are wondering what shedding sheep look like here are a few photos.
1st is some ewes in spring as they are shedding their winter coats
2nd ewes in summer and 3rd is a dorper ram with his back to the camera and Australian white beside him

[JEBar]

fascinating .... as one who uses no food, clothing or any other products from sheep, I know nothing about them .... thanks for posting this info

[220]

The shedding sheep breeds are solely for meat production. No shearing and associated husbandry required so more like mini cattle in the way you run them.
I'm constantly surprised at how little if any lamb most Americans consume, it is a fantastic meat.
About to prep a couple of shoulders that will go in the smoker tomorrow. It is NRL grand final day, our equivalent of super bowl. My team are the underdogs having made their first championship decider since 2013 and chasing their first tittle in 36 years.
Love lamb done in the smoker, it is very forgiving to cook as due to the fat content making it hard to over cook to the point it dries out. Will get a dry rub shortly then back into the refrigerator for about 24hrs. About 3 hrs in the smoker tomorrow at around 275 before wrapping and somewhere between 5-7hrs total to get them to a internal temp around 200. Pulled lamb is tomorrows menu.

I will trim the bigger pockets of fat but it is all the intramuscular fat that you can see that renders out and keeps it so moist during cooking

[Sir Henry]

You are making me hungry and I might just pick up some mutton. Keep posting about them.

[Ernie]

I wear lots of wool but have never tasted lamb. Thanks for the information.

[Sir Henry]

I wear lots of wool but have never tasted lamb. Thanks for the information.

I’ve eaten it quite a lot. It takes like a cross between beef and pork.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Properly prepared lamb is outstanding eating. I really like the basque ways of cooking lamb meals. As an aside goat is really good eating as well.

Over 25 years ago I owned a few registered purebred shorthorns an so was really into the idea and use of expected progeny differences (epds). Back then they only had a few measures - nowdays wow all kinds of measures and I believe you can even look at cross breed epds. A friend of mine has been involved in Suffolk sheep epds so I knew sheep breeds at least some were going down this route as well. I don't know if they exist for goats though or what other kinds of stock.

I agree with you that that more than just epds or similar measures should be used in selecting stock. I used the 3 Ps - Pedigree Phenotype (structural soundness movement etc) and Performance (the individual animal under consideration an its potential as expressed in epds).

It is amazing how far all this science has evolved. But of course new challenges arise. One if the main ones I think is now - how do we best match the total performance of animals to their production environment. Early on it was realized that too much milk production potential in an environment of lower feed quantity and/or quality results in a loss of performance. I don't think this gap has been bridged yet but it should be possible. Now semi-retired after 18 years in wildfire I may get back into looking at all this as my background and heart is really into range/grazing management an animal nutrition/production. This area has always interested me.

Have any bridges across this divide been all worked out in Australia? Maybe it's all worked out maybe not I've homework to do. The same kind of model principles should apply to sheep I would think.

I've never really looked into dorpers. No wool is attractive nowdays for sure My wife and I did have a few Suffolk crosses years ago but man was it hard to fend off the coyotes an quasi feral pet dogs of neighbors. That said I do have some funny sheep stories from back then. Are their Predator problems in Australia?

As for high priced animals back when I had shorthorns I thought about getting a red Angus heifer so I went to an auction to buy one. I saw the one I wanted probably the most beautiful heifer I've seen. When it was auctioned I bid an bid an bid against one phone buyer. At more than I wanted or could really justify I quit budding an the guy in the phone bought her. Turns out the guy on the phone just had the direction to buy her whatever the cost. The buyer was Teddy Gentry the bass player from the band Alabama. I had no chance.

-Ed-

[220]

The accuracy of breeding values continues to increase with advances in genetics and the volume of measurement data. The more related animals recorded and number of generations etc. ASBVs do take into account environmental constraints, I am not sure how they calculate them into the values but it is done. With sheep a single lamb from a mature ewe is almost certainly going to show better growth rates etc than a twin lamb from a maiden ewe. A maiden ewe is not going to produce as much milk, probably not be a good a mother and at the same time be trying to raise twice the number of lambs. Her lambs will be at a disadvantage compared to a single lamb from a mature ewe on raw data.
The indexs on the breeding values are great as they are a combination of the recorded data as applicable to specific enterprises. The MCP index is for a self replacing flock with a percentage of females kept for breeding and the remainder sold along with the males for slaughter. One interesting thing with it is an increase in mature body weight is seen as a negative. Increased body weight will result in faster growth rates better fertility etc that all increase production but at the same time larger animals require more feed so you cant run as many and the gains made are cancelled out. The aim is to increase weight gain, lambing percentages etc without increasing the size of mature animals.
You can see this effect in cattle when you look at some of the breeds and compare them to the same breed 50 or 100 years ago with the modern animal being significantly larger.
The shedding sheep breeds are really taking hold in Australia, low wool prices, the increased husbandry with wool breeds and the cost and difficulty in finding shearers are all seeing more people switch over. I would estimate between 5-10% of the Australian flock is now shedding breeds.
Preditors can be a problem, I have been lucky in that I havent had issues with wild dog/dingos in my area, we border millions of acres of forestry and then national park but forestry are quite good with their control programs running widespread poisoning programs and still employ trappers for problem animals. Foxes are an issue with predation on newborn lambs, I am due to start lambing in around 6 weeks so will set a trapline in the next few days increase the number of traps I have out once lambing starts and run it until lambing ends in about 3 months. Once lambs are 2-3weeks fox predation isnt much of an issue.

One other advantage of the shedding breeds is they are polyestrous meaning they can be mated all year round. Ovulation is still tied to day length like most breeds and is highest with decreasing day length. I join mine every 8 months resulting in 3 lambing every 2 years instead of just 2. My later summer and early winter joinings usually result in around 150% lambing while the late spring/early summer joining is around 100%.

[Sir Henry]

Great story about Alabama.

[220]

Have been battling foxes the last 3 weeks with sheep lambing.
Most years I try to start trapping a month or so before the start of lambing, it creates a bit of a window for them to lamb in before other foxes move in and take over the previous foxes range. With the wet weather we have had it didnt happen this year and I didnt get traps into the ground until the start of lambing, We share a boundry with forestry land than runs into national park and covers millions of acres. Most years forestry usually run a baiting program targeting foxes/dogs/dingos it also didnt happen with this years weather.
I tag all the lambs as soon as they hit the ground, around them checking each morning and evening at a minimum, have lost at least 10 I know about. Lambs that I have tagged that have just disappeared, dont know how many that are born overnight that get taken before I tag them on my morning checks or how many ewes that have a single lamb actually had twins with one taken,
Moved some week old lambs last weekend, at least 2 ewes that had twins that only had a single lamb left.

Always thought how many foxes I was seeing was a good indicator of numbers but not so sure now. Have spent 6 or more hours in the paddocks of a night with the spotlight for only one fox seen and taken. Have only seen a fox twice in daylight the past month, both times between 3-3.30pm a few days apart and similar area. Neigbour let me know they had seen one at a similar time. Spent about 30min for a few afternoons trying to call it at the times it had been seen. Managed to get it the third attempt.
Traps have delivered another 8 foxes, Im only targeting close to the lambing ewes so really only about 100acres, Far more about than I thought, took this photo earlier in the week, It is no wonder the foxes get a few lambs, would have been 25 or more ewes and lambs withing 30y of this fox and only one old ewe with a set of twins that was showing the slightest interest in the fox,
It had fallen for one of my sets and was held by a MB550 so no threat but interesting seeing the lack of concern by the sheep


A double catch at another set


The vixen that responded to the preditor call, a load of BB's ended her lamb killing days. Looked like she had not long weaned pups but would no doubt still be looking for easy feeds for the pups.


A lamb having a bit of fun

[daytime dave]

I just found ground lamb at the store today and picked up two pounds. It's an aquired taste, but once you have a taste for it, it's fantastic.
My hat is off to you for protecting your sheep like you do. Lot's of work involved.

[markiver54]

I personally prefer lamb over beef. Delicious!
Guess that's why I love authentic Gyros.

[BrokenolMarine]

My daughter was raising goats for a good while and we ate goat and sheep a lot. Fixed correctly, I really like it. We don't raise any ourselves as we don't have the fencing for it on our place and didn't want to invest in it. There are two farms in our general area that do, and they have several of the livestock guardian dogs in with their sheep/goats to protect them. We have a severe coyote problem here, as well as red/grey foxes. Tina had to stop free ranging the chickens due to the coyotes. She lost seven chickens in one day, eighteen in a two week period.

Gotcha.jpg (265.63 KiB) Viewed 4675 times

She managed to put this female down, who was the one who took seven in one day. She came back for number eight. She put down one more a few days later, but there were as many as fifty in the area in three packs. South, East, and West in the wood lines. You could hear them calling back and forth at night. I sat out several nights but never saw one. I'd hear them, or see them on the cams the next day. Smart suckers.

[220]

Thankfully its only foxes that are giving me a hard time. Once lambs are a few weeks old they are fairly safe and rarely taken, they do grow rapidly.
Weighed one the other day and it was 23lbs at 14 days, birth weight would have been 8-10lbs so nearly a lb a day for the first few weeks. Healthy grown sheep are rarely troubled by foxes.
Dingos/feral dogs are a different story and can kill a lot of sheep in a single day. Touch wood I have never had a problem. I did have one on a cam once, given we share a boundary with state forest I gave them a call and they sent out one of their professional trappers. We found a bit of sign where it had walked the forestry tracks and they ran a trap line targeting it for a month without luck. Looks like it was just passing through and took up residence about 15 miles down the valley. Farmers further down the valley started losing sheep about the same time and ended up losing around 500 before the dog was shot 18months later.
I imagine coyotes would be a real issue with not only lambs but grown sheep and goats given they are bigger than a fox and will run in packs.

We eat a fair bit of lamb, given 100lb live weight is just about the perfect size to eat they are very easy to process. No trouble to kill, dress and have a couple of lambs hanging in the cool room in under 1 hour. It will take me about half a day to process them. A 1000lb steer is a lot more work and requires a lot more equipment to process properly. I love beef and would class myself as reasonably competent at butchery but still find processing a steer to much to do myself.

[BrokenolMarine]

We have a young Jersey bull calf (steer) scheduled for the butcher in April. You have to schedule them ten to twelve months in advance here. The calf has a name: Burger. His full name is Ham Burger.

He has a pasture mate about the same age, his "sister." A black angus heifer named "Sissy.". She may hang around, but Miss T is already getting offers. If the right one comes in, she'll make someone nice breeding stock. We want to keep the two mom's we have for now. .. One is a milker, the other is due to drop her calf any day.

[220]

We have a young Jersey bull calf (steer) scheduled for the butcher in April. You have to schedule them ten to twelve months in advance here. The calf has a name: Burger. His full name is Ham Burger.

Daughter has a lamb she is bottle raising currently, its name in sunny, short for Sunday roast.

[BrokenolMarine]

That's funny right there. A farmer friend of Miss Tina gave my three girls a lamb to bottle raise after feral dogs killed his mother. They knew up front they had to give him back at six months. They were cool with it. Tina named him "Gyro."

My middle daughter goes off to Air Force bootcamp, then to Air Traffic Control school. One of her barracks pod mates is a young lady of Greek decent. My daughter calls. "Really Mom, Gyro?"

[220]

That's funny right there. A farmer friend of Miss Tina gave my three girls a lamb to bottle raise after feral dogs killed his mother. They knew up front they had to give him back at six months. They were cool with it. Tina named him "Gyro."

My middle daughter goes off to Air Force bootcamp, then to Air Traffic Control school. One of her barracks pod mates is a young lady of Greek decent. My daughter calls. "Really Mom, Gyro?"

Now you have just given me the inspiration for the next name.

Will call the next one Donna will be short for doner kebab

[BrokenolMarine]

We've had some good names. Our previous milker was Marilyn Moorow.
I wanted to name the next one liza moonellie.