357 vs 30-30

[Rugerfanboy]

In Indiana, only shotgun slugs or straight-walled handgun calibers are legal, so no doubt that here a .357 is more popular than a 30-30!

I didn't realize Indiana was among the states that have adopted the straight-walled handgun calibers requirement .... I tend to believe that as population growth shrinks the country's wide open spaces, more states will adopt that provision

Just the opposite. Indiana has only recently allowed straight wall cartridges rifles. Prior to that the only firearms allowed for deer hunting were shotgun slugs, straight wall handgun calibers, or black powder firearms. Hunters have been trying to get the higher powered rifles like 30-30. .308 or .223 included for years, but with no success. In 2015, they lobbied extensively to get a change. At the last minute, the Department of Natural Resources ruled against it saying in their surveys of hunters, there was not enough support to warrant a change.

It's my understanding....Indiana is now allowed to hunt with five new rifle bottle neck cartridges for this up coming deer season.

Indiana approves deer hunting with rifles chambered in .243, .30-30, .300, .30-06 or .308
http://www.guns.com/2016/03/28/indiana- ... th-rifles/

[JEBar]

Indiana approves deer hunting with rifles chambered in .243, .30-30, .300, .30-06 or .308
http://www.guns.com/2016/03/28/indiana- ... th-rifles/

that's good to hear, they are all very capable calibers .... if you hear any specifics on .300's please post the info .. I'm a huge fan of 300 Weatherby .... if forced to only have one rife, I'd probably keep our Remington 700 BDL that's chambered for 300 WBY .... its a remarkable cartridge

[White Squirrel]

Thanks for that update and correcting my mis-information, Rfb.

I was going on the decision by the DNR to not recommend the change. Did not see that the state legislature overrode the DNR.

Indiana also passed a resolution on the ballot this month introduced by a state legislator who belongs to my gun club, that declared hunting in Indiana to be a constitutional right.

[Rugerfanboy]

Indiana approves deer hunting with rifles chambered in .243, .30-30, .300, .30-06 or .308
http://www.guns.com/2016/03/28/indiana- ... th-rifles/

that's good to hear, they are all very capable calibers .... if you hear any specifics on .300's please post the info .. I'm a huge fan of 300 Weatherby .... if forced to only have one rife, I'd probably keep our Remington 700 BDL that's chambered for 300 WBY .... its a remarkable cartridge

The 300 Weatherby is included. I'll post a link to Indiana Department of Natural Resources....which has a list of calibers that are allowed.

Indiana Department of Natural Resources
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar_dnr/Ev ... =syndicate

[Rugerfanboy]

Thanks for that update and correcting my mis-information, Rfb.

I was going on the decision by the DNR to not recommend the change. Did not see that the state legislature overrode the DNR.

Indiana also passed a resolution on the ballot this month introduced by a state legislator who belongs to my gun club, that declared hunting in Indiana to be a constitutional right.

Not a problem...glad to help. Looking forward to coming back to southern Indiana for the Thanksgiving Holiday to be with my family. I'm a born and raised Hoosier and only left the state when I joined the service. Sure do miss hunting in southern Indiana around Evansville and the surrounding counties.

[JEBar]

The 300 Weatherby is included. I'll post a link to Indiana Department of Natural Resources....which has a list of calibers that are allowed.

doubt I'll ever have the good fortune to big game hunt in Indiana but am really happy to hear it none the less .... thanks for taking the time to respond

[JeffNC]

I keep reading in these forums that " there is no rifle data for .357 magnum" In the Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition Page 272 there is ,357 Magnum (rifle data) for rifle with 20" barrle length. The bullet/powder's are the same as for hand gun but they give correct velocity
ie; 125g jacked hp on 21.0 of H110, 4" barrel = 1357 fps, same load out of 20" barrel = 2207 fps They list from 110g to 170g bullets. I have read a lot of people shooting 180g JHP which I have shot out of my GP100. ( my home defense round ) So as always I like to check multiple sources.

[JEBar]

Nosler has listed rifle data for 44 Mag in their last two editions .... I hope they will also list 357 mag in future publications

[JEBar]

Nosler has listed rifle data for 44 Mag in their last two editions .... I hope they will also list 357 mag in future publications

[Rugerfanboy]

Allot of the powder manufactures does as well. Hodgdon has load data for 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum for rifle.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

[CT_Shooter]

Nosler has listed rifle data for 44 Mag in their last two editions .... I hope they will also list 357 mag in future publications

Hornady's Handbook publishes separate .357 magnum data for rifles and revolvers.

[JEBar]

from what I've noticed with 44's the load recommendation remains the same as revolver recommendations .... the major change is the muzzle velocity

[Rugerfanboy]

from what I've noticed with 44's the load recommendation remains the same as revolver recommendations .... the major change is the muzzle velocity

Correct

[DAVIDF]

I keep reading in these forums that " there is no rifle data for .357 magnum" In the Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition Page 272 there is ,357 Magnum (rifle data) for rifle with 20" barrle length. The bullet/powder's are the same as for hand gun but they give correct velocity
ie; 125g jacked hp on 21.0 of H110, 4" barrel = 1357 fps, same load out of 20" barrel = 2207 fps They list from 110g to 170g bullets. I have read a lot of people shooting 180g JHP which I have shot out of my GP100. ( my home defense round ) So as always I like to check multiple sources.

There is also .357 Magnum rifle data on Holdgdon's website http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

[DAVIDF]

I worked up the following ballistics calculator to compare .357 Magnum rifle to 30-30 rifle. I used Hodgdon's load data & Federal's factory data for their 170gr Fusion 30-30 load. I backed off slightly on the ballistics coefficient for the Fusion bullet. It was probably a bit optimistic but perhaps the XTP's are also?

1st is the Federal Fusion 170 gr 30-30, 2nd is 158gr XTP .357 with max charge of H110, 3rd is a 180gr XTP with a max charge of H110. The 30-30 obviously (if Hornady's muzzle velocity is close to actual) has more velocity at 100 yards than either .357 load. Whether significant for the bullet design of these loads, I'll let you decide.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/balli ... eate+Chart+

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/balli ... eate+Chart+

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/balli ... eate+Chart+

[CT_Shooter]

I worked up the following ballistics calculator to compare .357 Magnum rifle to 30-30 rifle.

Thanks for working it up and sharing that data. While reading it, I was reminded of a similar comparison that Chuck Hawks did that might also be of interest:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_rifle_cartridges.htm

[JEBar]

the following tables were calculated based on our chronograph data :

Henry 357 BBS firing Nosler.................Winchester Model 94 firing Nosler
158 gr JHP's...................................150 gr Ballistic Silvertips

(yd)...(in).....(ft/s).....(ft•lbs).............(yd)....(in)....(ft/s)......(ft•lbs)

0.....-1.5.....1531.6.....822.8................0....-1.5....2171.7.....1570.6

100...0.0.....1229.5......530.2..............100....0.0....1836.4.....1123.0

200..-21.6....1040.4......379.7..............200..-8.9....1539.0.......788.7


I'm having to rethink everything I believed concerning the 357 vs 30-30 discussion .... on the left below is a 60's vintage 30-30 150 gr Winchester Silvertip .... on the right is a new generation Combined Technologies 30-30 150 gr Ballistic Silvertip .... as an FYI, the Combined Technologies bullets are produced jointly by Nosler and Winchester .... the difference in the aerodynamics has to be huge .... the Winchester was all most like shooting a wadcutter which is much more in keeping with the shape of a 357 bullet .... the Combined Technology bullet is much more of a spitzer boat tail.... the difference in velocity and energy is significant at all ranges .... the longer the range the bigger the gap .... personally I'd not hesitate to deer hunt with our 357 Henry at ranges up to 100 yards .... I never thought I'd say this but I'd now be perfectly comfortable deer hunting with a 30-30 200 yards or even a bit more

[GFK]

Yes. Knock down power out to 200 yards is good. I think that is just over generally accepted maximum effective range of a 30-30.

popular-hunting-ballistics-and-distances-compared.jpg (38.91 KiB) Viewed 2982 times

tactical-survival-survival-weapons.jpg (105.92 KiB) Viewed 2982 times

[DAVIDF]

I worked up the following ballistics calculator to compare .357 Magnum rifle to 30-30 rifle.

Thanks for working it up and sharing that data. While reading it, I was reminded of a similar comparison that Chuck Hawks did that might also be of interest:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_rifle_cartridges.htm

Thanks for the article. I don't agree with everything he wrote, but I understand his points. And, I always like reading his articles.

[Mistered]

The .357 Mag is a fantastic cartridge - and maybe the BEST in it's class (straight wall pistol/rifle).

No 'maybe' about it - it IS the best IN IT'S CLASS - and my personal favorite. There is literally no other cartridge that can be loaded in such a wide range of velocities - from mouse fart level on up to nearly bear busting speeds. Modern powders and bullets have dramatically improved the .357 - as well as the 30-30. Bottom line is the .357 can NOW nearly equate 30-30 performance on up to about 100 yards and that should be considered the maximum range for hunting medium sized game with it. Hunt with a .357 as you would a muzzleloader and it will serve you well.