Peep Sight Questions.......

[BrokenolMarine]

Hey, BrokenolMarine!

Is your Skinner Peep mounted on the barrel, or on the receiver? I think I've read that you can use the factory front sight with a barrel mounted peep......

By any chance do you know how tall your front sight is? Mine (bead) that came with my H009G .30-30 is .615" tall, for reference.

My Skinner is mounted on the Receiver. I got the Brass and Black and love the way it looks and shoots. I don't know the height, and can't measure it now as the house is asleep. It's the factory front sight that comes on the .357 Big Boy Carbine.

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As you can see, once I went to the peep, the Carbine shoots pretty good for old eyes with the peep.

[BrokenolMarine]

What I used to do with Rifles is set the sights for a known distance, then shoot at others and note the hold over/under so I didn't have to mess with adjustments. I didn't hunt so I was just shooting cans or steel and it worked. Competition was a different story. We set battle zero and then counted clicks to the yardage settings EVERY TIME.

[Mr. Neutron]

GFK, Those are Fantastic Groups!!!!

I hope mine will group like that (with my eyes, and my trigger finger) someday........ I'm glad you get by with the factory front sight for yours!
I can't find my targets I shot over 2 different days at the range, but trust me, they were horrible regarding elevation. Groups weren't too bad; but nowhere near what yours are. On the large sized Birchwood Casey Shoot-N-C targets (has a 3" red center, with a black 17"-8 ring) I had to hold at the bottom of the 17" black ring to get shots to hit 13-14 inches higher into the top of the 9-ring, with my Skinner Alaskan peep and factory front sight. The RPP peep/factory front sight yielded a group around 2" lower, all at 25 yards. At least my windage was good......

Cofisher, my last name is Newton. I raced the Pro class in local motocross races in the '70s and '80s. My riding buddies and myself all watched Monte Python's Flying Circus regularly. For a few weeks, that show had skits with a character played by Graham Chapman named "Mr. Neutron" ("The most powerful man on earth", if I recall correctly). My riding buddies tagged me with that nickname in the mid-to-late '70s, and it just kinda stuck. I've just kinda "owned it" ever since then.......

BrokenolMarine, another Great Grouping!!! If that's "The Alaskan" peep, that's what I have (and really like!). I badly want mine to work......

Thanks for putting up with me here, and for all the help on this!

[BrokenolMarine]

You'll find that we have a good group here. I tell newbies when they join, when I get the time and feel up to it, that it's a family. Jump in and post, ask questions and share pictures. It's a family, so we might pick on yah, but all in good fun, you know... like family. The mods won't let folks be mean and it's not in most folks nature anyway, here.

I joined a few forums in the past where you ask a question and the only answer you get is "Search Feature is there for a reason." I usually cancelled my membership there, even if the comment wasn't addressed to me. That is not the attitude I need to be around. In most cases, people have tried to search and seen what was pulled up, and would rather ask a specific question and get NEW information.

Or they aren't comfortable with the information they got by searching.

Family. And... some family members are Grumpy. (That's what my grandkids call me.)

[GFK]

I can't find my targets I shot over 2 different days at the range, but trust me, they were horrible regarding elevation. Groups weren't too bad; but nowhere near what yours are. On the large sized Birchwood Casey Shoot-N-C targets (has a 3" red center, with a black 17"-8 ring) I had to hold at the bottom of the 17" black ring to get shots to hit 13-14 inches higher into the top of the 9-ring, with my Skinner Alaskan peep and factory front sight. The RPP peep/factory front sight yielded a group around 2" lower, all at 25 yards. At least my windage was good......

Are you trying different brands of ammo? Mine seems to shoot closer to POA with Federal 150 gr. Also, are you using a sand bag or other soft rest when shooting from a bench? A soft rest seems to have a more consistent POI for me. And, breathing, or lack of, helps me to be more consistent. When I exhale, I hold for no more than 10 seconds, while squeezing the trigger. If I don’t fire within the 10 seconds, I start the process over again.

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[fortyshooter]

Mr. Neutron... this is what I came up with on all my Henry rifles. Was easy for me to make out of old hacksaw blade ends and slips right in Henry rear sight mount. Works great for me and cheap! Sight hole is .150 diameter and works great with factory front sight.

[Mr. Neutron]

Fortyshooter,
I love your idea you came up with! I saw your thread about this. I've used old hacksaw blades myself for a variety of little "projects" I've needed to engineer. Its pretty good steel. On my gun however, my groups were still really high with the factory buckhorn rear sight. Holding the front bead at the very bottom of the rear notch still shot high, even with the elevation ramp removed.

I began shooting Federal Fusion 150 grainers at first, and began to run low on those. Next tried a box of Winchester 150 grn. rounds, which were all that was available to me at the local gun shop at the time. These moved the group down a tiny (1/2" maybe) bit. Both brands grouped at around 1.5"-2" for 3 shot groups at 25 yds., but always several inches high. And windage was great with both brands.

Now, I'm soon going to be at the mercy of just whatever brand(s) of ammo I can find. For whatever reason, .30-30 ammo is really tough to find anywhere close to where I Iive.

For reloading, I don't really have what seems like a great .30-30 powder (some H335), no bullets, and very few large rifle primers left. Never dreamed we'd see the shortages of reloading stuff we have now. So I pretty much will be shooting factory stuff for the future. I guess that I got spoiled years ago shooting around 1000 rnds. of .45ACP ammo a month, for practice & matches. All cranked out of my Dillon XL650. Reloading components were all easily available, and much cheaper.

Have been shooting off of sandbags at the fore end of the rifle. I read that on rifles with separate wood stocks like our lever guns have, to use your shoulder as the back "rest". Something about potentially inducing "pressure" on the stock that's different from shooting in the field? Seems somewhat "wrong" and different to me. With my scoped .30-06, I sandbagged the front and back in an effort to reduce any sort of operator caused error. All I do on that gun is basically just lightly press the trigger, once the crosshairs are set.

GFK, that written description of your shooting process, along with the diagrams, is one of THE BEST I've seen. Very helpful! I will try to use these as best as I'm able to next range day. Thank you for that!

And thank you to all that have replied here. I very much appreciate all your help & advice. I will try to report back & get some pics after I get my taller sight ramp on, and get some range time in. Thanks again!

[GFK]

On my gun however, my groups were still really high with the factory buckhorn rear sight. Holding the front bead at the very bottom of the rear notch still shot high, even with the elevation ramp removed.

I began shooting Federal Fusion 150 grainers at first, and began to run low on those. Next tried a box of Winchester 150 grn. rounds, which were all that was available to me at the local gun shop at the time. These moved the group down a tiny (1/2" maybe) bit. Both brands grouped at around 1.5"-2" for 3 shot groups at 25 yds., but always several inches high. And windage was great with both brands.

Now, I'm soon going to be at the mercy of just whatever brand(s) of ammo I can find. For whatever reason, .30-30 ammo is really tough to find anywhere close to where I Iive.

Have been shooting off of sandbags at the fore end of the rifle. I read that on rifles with separate wood stocks like our lever guns have, to use your shoulder as the back "rest". Something about potentially inducing "pressure" on the stock that's different from shooting in the field? Seems somewhat "wrong" and different to me. With my scoped .30-06, I sandbagged the front and back in an effort to reduce any sort of operator caused error. All I do on that gun is basically just lightly press the trigger, once the crosshairs are set.

Mr. Neutron,

I was shooting high while using buckhorn as well. After contacting Henry and re-reading the owner manual, I realized that the white diamond insert was adjustable. After adjusting it down some, I was shooting closer to POA. I wanted a tighter group yet still using an open sight. So, I ended up with a RPP peep.

When I shoot using a rest, I do try and set the receiver on the sandbag. Also, I rest the butt against shoulder as support. With my free hand, I use it to support the rear stock and adjust POA, if required. The trigger is not too light. So, the rifle may move some, as I squeeze the trigger.

Yes, 30-30 seems to be harder to find. I find a few boxes at Wal-mart, from time to time. However, I stocked up during the last dry up of ammo. So, I have a few boxes. I have not tried Federal Fusion though. I just been using the blue box. Below is what I was shooting using buckhorn.

25yards Bench-2.JPG

[Mr. Neutron]

Man, thanks, GFK!!! You're giving me lotsa help and stuff to try here......

When I shoot using a rest, I do try and set the receiver on the sandbag.

I hadn't even thought about doing that. I'm gonna try that tomorrow at the range. I have my RPP rear peep on, along with the .700" tall brass post (stock bead height is around .615" high.....) I got from Skinner. It's a combo I haven't tried yet, and I'm hoping it might be close with a 6 o'clock hold. I'm kinda hamstrung a bit with the range I'm a member of ( along with my old eyes ). The range is only 10 minutes away, so it's handy. But they only let us shoot at either 25 yds. or 100 yds.. I'd really prefer to sight in at 75 yds., but will have to try going up to some nearby NF areas for that.

I have some (2 boxes) Winchester 150 grn. Power Point rounds, 2 boxes of the Federal Fusion 150 grainers, and 3 boxes of the 160 grn. Hornady Leverevolution rounds. Will try to use my Winchester ammo for sighting in tomorrow, as it and the Federal rounds shot almost identical 25 yrd. groups at nearly the same windage and elevation. Not much of a stockpile, fer shure, unless some of the local places get some .30-30 ammo in. I have an Elk hunt coming up in 3 weeks, and I'd like to shoot the Hornadys for that, if possible.

Here's my rifle and my ammo stockpile:



Here's the Skinner Brass sight. To use this with my Skinner peep a .312" high ramp is needed (according to the calculations), making a total 1" high front sight setup. But the ramp I was sent from Skinner doesn't really fit tight, and has some side-to-side movement. I got my Williams .375" high dovetail lock Shorty ramp in the mail today, but it has the same movement issue as the Skinner.

Here's a closer look at the Skinner Brass front sight:



Here's the RPP peep sight:



FWIW, I tried adjusting the diamond lower, flipping the diamond upside down (for a sorta peep sight), then removing the diamond insert. I wound up filing the notch for the buckhorn sight down lower and removing the ramp to get the rifle to hit closer to point of aim. Hoping to get *something* working before I leave to go hunting in a few weeks. //and to find some more ammo, hee hee......

Added in EDIT: I don't know how I butchered up the order of the photos & such. Hopefully, you still get the gist of it......

[GFK]

Nice looking setup! I suspect that you will find something that will work. Persistence is the key. Frustration will probably come along. Yet, things seem to work out in the end.

Happy hunting!

[Mr. Neutron]

Made it to the range this a.m.. Many thanks to member GFK for his advice to rest the receiver on the sandbag, I feel this helped a lot.

With the .7" tall brass front sight and the RPP peep, the first group I shot was at 25 yards Almost a 2" group. Not great for off a bench, but at this point, I'm happy just to have a group on paper, even if it's still around 2.5" higher than I want (again, at 25 yds.). Looked like this:

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Moving the same target out to 100 yards really exposed some weaknesses in my shooting. The combination of me sucking and somewhat of a warmish barrel is flat embarassing. Anyway, at 100 yds., holding the post at the bottom of the 3" red bullseye (6 o'clock hold), sent my first shot over the top of the target. The second shot, same hold, is in the yellow, upper right. Changing my hold to a 6 o'clock hold at the bottom of the target got me back on paper. Shots 3 & 4 were decent (for my eyes and shooting ability at 100 yds.). Shot #5 was a total muff on my part. Shot #6 was stacked on top of my 25 yd. group.

20221014_185845 (2).jpg

This all showed me that I really need to practice with my rifle, on the bench and off. Need to show more patience and let the barrel cool more. And I still need a front sight about .075" higher......

I did get lucky this afternoon and scored 3 more boxes of the Winchester 150 Power Point. They may not group as good as the Federal Fusions I have, or the Hornady Leverevolutions, but for now, they can get me close to where I'd like to be. If I limit my shots to, say, 75 yards or less, I think I can hunt with this setup. My first bull elk was shot at 15 yards in the trees, so there is a chance........

[GFK]

Nice report! Glad that you are making progress. Keep shooting. I believe that you will find the sweet spot. At times, I may only shoot 10 rounds or so, within an hour. After then, I am done. I just take my time when squeezing the trigger. I did not know that could be so exhausting. At any rate, happy hunting!

[Mags]

... scored 3 more boxes of the Winchester 150 Power Point. They may not group as good as the Federal Fusions...

Good to see your progress. Federal Fusion for me has been the best as well. Winchester Power Point and Remington Core Lokt the worst. Even my reloads using Leverevolution powder are better than those two.

[Mr. Neutron]

Mags, I know this is "off-topic", but.......

If it's okay to ask (if not, you can tell me to mind my own business...... ), did you have to get your Leverevolution powder thru the interwebs somewhere, or did some one here in our area get some in? Has it been awhile since you bought it? What bullets are you pushin' with your powder?

[Mags]

Mags, I know this is "off-topic", but.......

If it's okay to ask (if not, you can tell me to mind my own business...... ), did you have to get your Leverevolution powder thru the interwebs somewhere, or did some one here in our area get some in? Has it been awhile since you bought it? What bullets are you pushin' with your powder?

I got walk-in lucky at Sportsmans, twice. Not sure of the dates. But I think in 2021. I've seen it on the shelf at least once since then (but seldom otherwise). I used the Hodgdon website for reload data. 35.7-36.3gr. I use Hornady #3035, a 150gr RN .308 diameter bullet.

[Mr. Neutron]

Thought I'd give abit of "update" of sorts on my progress with my sight setup........

Real quick, first: If I had settled on a BARREL Mounted peep sight, things would've been MUCH easier. Most likely I could have simply ordered a slightly taller front sight, or maybe not even needed a taller one at all, and things likely would've been splendid.

But I much prefer a RECEIVER mounted rear peep, so I had to go on a quest to get a taller front sight to work with the
taller receiver peep. I like the longer sight radius with the peep on the receiver, and I learned that I prefer the sight picture from a Skinner receiver peep over my RPP receiver peep. Just a personal (probably OCD) preference. The RPP is a fine peep, but it still needs a taller front sight to work on my rifle also. I do thnk the Skinner peep has more adjustability, as far as windage and elevation are concerned.

I took a lot of measurements on my gun to find out how far above the rifle's bore centerline the Skinner peep actually sat. I then tried to get a front sight combo that would give a value close to what I needed to match the Skinner peep's height, and allow a few turns of adjustment of that peep, I went with a Williams Streamlined Screw On Hoodless ramp. You can get these in differing heights; I bought one that was 7/16" tall. I then took my Skinner brass .7" tall post and filed and sanded it down to .6" in height. The front sight/ramp combo looks like this:

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Back sight is now the Skinner Alaskan peep: (Again, not bagging on the RPP peep. There's just things about the Skinner I prefer. Don't really care what either looks like, cosmetically. I just prefer the Skinner's sight picture and adjustability more...... )

20221026_164033.jpg

The Skinner peep/Williams ramp and brass post front sight netted a 1" group for me at 25 yards, but for some reason, I can't post the picture of it. The group is pretty well centered, but about 4"+ below where I want it to be. I'm okay with that. A needed shorter front sight is easy enough to make with the Skinner post, or buy another one. Either way, it's not too hard of a change to make.......

And this leads me to a question I have for the knowledge base here. With a rear peep sight, what type of front sight (Patridge-stype post, or a TruGlo/HiViz fiber optic) do you folks prefer to HUNT with? I get the concept of the post blocking less of the target. And it's a very valid point. But I've shot with fiber optics of some sort on almost all handguns for a long time, and just feel more "comfortable" with those. The glow from these little plastic light pipes sure seems to be easier to find in low light conditions, like I'd expect when hunting. The sky was pretty overcast yesterday, and the brass post could be harder to get more "definition' sometimes, for my eyes, anyway. Does anyone here shoot a fiber optic with a 6 'oclock hold?

Again, Thanks in advance for all your help, replies, and advice, It is SO MUCH appreciated!!

[Mr. Neutron]

Here's another attempt at my target photo. Again, it's nothing to brag about, it's only at 25 yards, but it is better than I have been getting, and a little closer to where I want the group to be, as well as easier to resolve for elevation, I'm hoping.

I'm thinking that it may lean me towards hunting with the post front sight, as I haven't yet shot a group any better than I have here......

20221026_215802.jpg

[Mags]

...Aww, crap!!! For whatever reason, it's rotated clockwise 90 degrees. Sigh. This picture posting thing is kickin' my buttocks on this message board......

Using a cell phone to take pictures? Try taking your pictures with the top of the phone rotated 90' left.

There is an old topic in the photography topics that go into this for this website issue.

[Mr. Neutron]

Hey, Mags!

Thanks man! I'll search for that thread.

But all my other pics were taken with the same camera, and there were no weird "rotational" issues with them?

Added in EDIT:
Fixed it! Found the thread that dealt with it. I guess it was the way my camera sized it? Had to edit it on my phone (resized it, I *think*). No small feat for a Tech Goober like myself.......

[GFK]

Looks nice! I use a 6 o’clock with my Marlin 1894, which has a fiber front post. Yet, it also has a semi-buckhorn rear sight. Due to the look and expected range of shooting (75 yards or less), I plan to keep the semi-buckhorn. I have not hunted with it yet. But, I would.