My new Winchester

[6MT]

I just picked up a model 1873 in .357M/.38SP. (Modern era, brand new vintage.) Looking forward to doing some load tests.



So I've loaded 5 different charges beneath 125gr XTP's. 16.0, 16.5, 17.0, 17.5, and. 18.0 grains of H-110

Just as soon as this social distancing subsides, I'll try it out.

[Vaquero]

Good luck, will be waiting on the range report.
Good lookin rifle.

RP

[RanchRoper]

Now that's a cowboy's saddle gun if I ever saw one...Nice.

[JEBar]

congrats .... nice looking rifle, sure hope she performs as good as she looks .... do hope you will be able to get her out and put her through her paces soon

[Travlin]

That is a very nice looking rifle. Just remember not to hot rod a toggle link action.

[BigAl52]

Good looking rifle. I hope she shoots as good as she looks. 357 leverguns are fun for sure. Hope to see your range report soon.

[Mistered]

Yep - glad to see Winchester is making a 'basic' version of the model '73.

I wish at a minimum however they would have maintained an octagon barrel with nose cap for originality.

[fortyshooter]

Looks really good! Now a nice 6 shooter to follow unless you already have one.

[6MT]

Looks really good! Now a nice 6 shooter to follow unless you already have one.

I've never owned a wheel gun. I've shot plenty of them though.

[6MT]

That is a very nice looking rifle. Just remember not to hot rod a toggle link action.

What does that mean?

[Mags]

.
May I suggest a Uberti?

20190228_170847.jpg

Looks really good! Now a nice 6 shooter to follow unless you already have one.

I've never owned a wheel gun. I've shot plenty of them though.

[Rifletom]

That is a very nice rifle you have there! You ought to hook up with RR. I was looking at your loads and they seem vary a lot between manuals. Yours line up with the Hornady book. But, the #50 Lyman is wildly different. Be careful 6MT.

[Mistered]

What does that mean?

The '73 toggle action is relatively weak and stock, untuned actions can be damaged if they are operated too fast or heavily.

CASS shooters have them modified to withstand the rigors of competition speed and operation but take it easy on a stock rifle.

[RanchRoper]

My 1860 Uberti Henry has the same action. Not made for hot loads, or rapid fire cycling of the rounds. But it is reliable, I have several thousand rounds through mine with no issues. Enjoy your rifle!

[6MT]

That is a very nice rifle you have there! You ought to hook up with RR. I was looking at your loads and they seem vary a lot between manuals. Yours line up with the Hornady book. But, the #50 Lyman is wildly different. Be careful 6MT.

Yes, the Hodgdon rifle listing is insane. And would probably blow up numbers of rifles. The 18gr of H110 would be my maximum. I'm thinking around 1900fps would be as fast as I would like to see with the 125gr bullet (in any lever). Max load is probably around 20gr, and not the 22gr that Hodgdon publishes. And H110 is best at or just less than a maximum pressure load. Even with 18gr, there is plenty of room left in the case with the bullet seated.

Yes I will be careful. And as far as the action goes, I didn't realize that can be fragile if worked too fast or with a max load. This will be interesting for sure. I think I'll start another load development thread. Too bad all the ranges are closed due to covid-19. I'll need all of my patience for this wait.

[6MT]

My Sierra manual lists min charge weight with the 125gr bullet at 17.5gr of H110 and max at 20.4gr. The Hornady listing shows 10.4gr as a starting point with H110 and max at 19.4gr. Lyman shows (in the 49th edition) as min at 21.0gr and max at 22.0gr. Insane!

Which is why I think my max at 18gr is a nice conservative weight. And shouldn't be overly harmful. We'll see. And besides, I might see great results much lower than the 18gr.

FWIW, I believe the Lyman and Hodgdon data is dangerous. Although, I think Lyman is just copying verbatim from the powder manufacturer's data. Still, it's irresponsible, IMHO.

[RanchRoper]

I think you'll have a lot of fun with that rifle once we can get back to the range that is....

[6MT]

I think you'll have a lot of fun with that rifle once we can get back to the range that is....

Well, I still have Edson open up here. But I don't want to do a full day trip to do a load test with less than 30 rounds. I hope this isolating ends soon....

Hey, I can hope.

[Mistered]

Yes, the Hodgdon rifle listing is insane.

Just wondering what Hodgdon rifle listing you are referring to as 'insane'?

If you are referencing the Load on the Hodgdon website the rifle data does NOT differ from the pistol data which is typical - and for your bullet/powder combo is 21 grains H110 for starting and 22 grains maximum.

Most (if not all) powder mfgs. DO NOT change any load data for rifles - they use the SAME data as in the pistol load category and simply post the results of that load in the manual as chronographed out of the rifle.

The only thing that will be different is the velocity due to the longer barrel but the powder charge is the same.

By comparison my 'old' Speer # 9 manual shows this same load as 19.5 grains starting and max at 21.5, and tested out of a Ruger Security Six. Definitely a 'Full House' load that should be approached carefully but not 'insane'.

I have shot 100's of similar loads using WW 296 (a H110 equivalent) with 19 grains and a 125 grain bullet out of both a Winchester Trapper and Henry .357 with no issues.

My question is why are you starting with essentially 'maximum' loads? It is far more prudent to start with lessor loads for plinking & range shooting. Unless you are hunting or have a need for maximum loads why load them? Much more pleasant (and less expensive) to shoot lower end loads.

[6MT]

Well, I would say that my starting load of 16gr of H110 with the 125gr bullet is far from a max load. I think my choice of these 5 charges is pretty conservative. And as far as the variations from book to book and manufacturer goes, that's why I use four data sources and ask lots of questions on forums like this.

The input is appreciated.