Reloading newbie stupid question.

[Mistered]

135 ° is just a way to remember the number of turns I used to set the lee factory crimp for crimping Sierra bullet

Ok - degree of rotation.
That explains it!

[BruniX]

I don't crimp bullets rifle bullets that don't have a cannulure as I don't believe it's necessary. I do crimp those that do have a cannulure. I guess most anything in reloading is subjective. My motto has always been, "Do what works for you."
Jake

interesting , Jake...
  I did it because I read a lot of people who say that in rifles with tubular magazine,
it is better to avoid that the recoil modifies the insertion of the bullet...
you never had the worry?
I'm interested, one step less, can be good to take ....

[Shakey Jake]

interesting , Jake...
  I did it because I read a lot of people who say that in rifles with tubular magazine,
it is better to avoid that the recoil modifies the insertion of the bullet...
you never had the worry?
I'm interested, one step less, can be good to take ....
[/quote]

Pistol cartridges I do crimp, i.e, .327, .357, .44 mag but rifle cartridges I do not unless the bullet has a cannulure.

[JEBar]

Pistol cartridges I do crimp, i.e, .327, .357, .44 mag but rifle cartridges I do not unless the bullet has a cannulure.

we use Nosler bullets .... I can't say that this is true for all calibers of bullets Nosler makes for use in tubular magazines but for all of the rifle and revolver bullets but all that we load come with crimp rings .... that includes 30-30, 357, 44, and 45-70

[Albertaktm]

hello,
135 ° is just a way to remember the number of turns I used to set the lee factory crimp for crimping Sierra bullet:
i don't kow if the translation is correct

Bring the tool to touch the shell holder
Lock the nut
Bring the crimping adjustment screw into contact with the bullet
go down the ram
and after:

90 ° = a quarter of a turn
180 ° = 1 half turn
135 ° = middle of 1/4 and 1/2 turn


lfc die.png

BruniX

That makes a ton of sense! Degrees rotation of the die after contact. So....this propagates the next question. When you seat the bullet in the .44 seat/crimp die, it's going to apply crimp no matter what. Then rotate the turrent over to a .44 FCD. It's going to place additional crimp above and beyond what the bullet seat die did BUT you have adjustment in the rotation of the die to affect the amount of crimp. In your case 135 degrees from the contact point. Correct?


I talked to Lee this am and they told me the FCD is good if your using range brass or brass from other guns. Something I'll never do.

For the couple of bucks, I'll probably get one now so it's on hand. Once I I get everything going just right maybe I'll start trying out the FCD down the road

[clovishound]

That makes a ton of sense! Degrees rotation of the die after contact. So....this propagates the next question. When you seat the bullet in the .44 seat/crimp die, it's going to apply crimp no matter what. Then rotate the turrent over to a .44 FCD. It's going to place additional crimp above and beyond what the bullet seat die did BUT you have adjustment in the rotation of the die to affect the amount of crimp. In your case 135 degrees from the contact point. Correct?


I talked to Lee this am and they told me the FCD is good if your using range brass or brass from other guns. Something I'll never do.

For the couple of bucks, I'll probably get one now so it's on hand. Once I I get everything going just right maybe I'll start trying out the FCD down the road

If you read the instructions for the Lee FCD, it says to adjust the seat/crimp die so that it does not crimp. I have used the FCD with both pistol and bottleneck rifle cases, and using both Lee and RCBS seat/crimp dies. It isn't hard to adjust the die so that it doesn't crimp.

[Ojaileveraction]

Many suggest to crimp separately however one is crimping.

That makes a ton of sense! Degrees rotation of the die after contact. So....this propagates the next question. When you seat the bullet in the .44 seat/crimp die, it's going to apply crimp no matter what. Then rotate the turrent over to a .44 FCD. It's going to place additional crimp above and beyond what the bullet seat die did BUT you have adjustment in the rotation of the die to affect the amount of crimp. In your case 135 degrees from the contact point. Correct?


I talked to Lee this am and they told me the FCD is good if your using range brass or brass from other guns. Something I'll never do.

For the couple of bucks, I'll probably get one now so it's on hand. Once I I get everything going just right maybe I'll start trying out the FCD down the road

If you read the instructions for the Lee FCD, it says to adjust the seat/crimp die so that it does not crimp. I have used the FCD with both pistol and bottleneck rifle cases, and using both Lee and RCBS seat/crimp dies. It isn't hard to adjust the die so that it doesn't crimp.

[Mistered]

When you seat the bullet in the .44 seat/crimp die, it's going to apply crimp no matter what.

I don't know where this came from but it is NOT correct. There is 'no matter what' about it.
In a TYPICAL seating die the ROLL CRIMP is determined by how deep the seating die is set in the press.
To eliminate roll crimping you simply back the seating die off a few turns so the roll crimp ring does NOT make contact with the case.

Then rotate the turrent over to a .44 FCD. It's going to place additional crimp above and beyond what the bullet seat die did

You would NEVER make an additional crimp on a loaded round!
The reason for using a FCD is to ELIMINATE the use of the seating die to roll crimp.

I talked to Lee this am and they told me the FCD is good if your using range brass or brass from other guns. Something I'll never do.

Why not? Range brass is just someones' throw a way. Inspect and use - this is one way to save a little money.

I am going to suggest you take some time and readdress your reloading procedures before you have a serious problem.
You might want to to crack your reloading manual and re-read the section on adjusting the seating die.

[Albertaktm]

Mistered:

I haven't loaded a round of anything yet. I'm just trying to get things sorted out BEFORE I load anything. There is lots of info out there in the manuals for sure. I find though it targets general strategies and practices. Lee's info on their documentation I find pretty good as it's telling me exactly how to use the product they made which I have in my hands. Clovishound probably hit the nail on the head when he said to read the seat/crimp die info card and set it so it won't seat

Here is a snippet of the web chat with Lee


Randy How
9:59 AM
k thanks. While I have you here, wat is the story on the 44 mag pistol 3 die set. The instructions say a factory crimp die is nor required as the seating die also crimps. Tell me why I should get the optional FCD?
Lee Customer Service 3
10:03 AM
The carbide factory crimp die is useful when using mixed range brass, it will post size your finished round to insure it chambers reliably like brand new factory ammo.

Some customer's also prefer to separate the bullet seating and crimping step, so that is why we sell the optional factory crimp die.
Randy How left the chat

[Mistered]

Tell me why I should get the optional FCD?

The FCD (Collet Style) crimps by exerting pressure AROUND the case mouth as opposed to the the crimp ring in the seating die pressing DOWN on the case rim and 'rolling' it into the bullet.

The major advantage with the FCD is it does not matter if the cases vary in length a few thou (which they will) a FCD will NEVER crush or over crimp a round.

Even in the case of rifle rounds where the cases all have to be trimmed to length there is still a chance of crushing a case by roll crimping.
In my .30-30 loading experience I have been seating bullets and ROLL crimping with the seating die and still would have a few crushed/collapsed cases.

Some customer's also prefer to separate the bullet seating and crimping step, so that is why we sell the optional factory crimp die.

This is somewhat redundant as you WILL be separating seating from the crimping procedure with a FCD but because using a FCD is literally hassle free separating the steps does not really add any additional time due to never having to deal with crushed cases, or having to set the seating die to a 'minimal' or average crimp for your cases to hopefully eliminate over crimping or crushing them.

The carbide factory crimp die is useful when using mixed range brass, it will post size your finished round to insure it chambers reliably like brand new factory ammo.

In the case of RIFLE brass this might have some value HOWEVER it does NOT eliminate the requirement of trimming and chamfering the brass!

[Shakey Jake]

I don't crimp while seating on pistol calibers. I crimp separately using the FCD. It's an extra step but doesn't take long after adjustments are made. Everyone does things differently and as long as it works for them then I'm not bothered by it.

[Rifletom]

The information that Mistered is giving on crimping is spot on. I use the Lee FCD on .357/.38spl, .45acp, .45 Colt and 30-30 Win. Never a problem. Hassle free and works.

[clovishound]

Keep in mind that the bottleneck rifle caliber FCDs are a different animal than the straightwall pistol caliber FCDs. The rifle FCDs are a collet style and do not post seat resize. Their main advantage is that trim length is relatively irrelevant. They can often achieve a heavier crimp without worrying about buckling the case. These are extremely useful dies IMO.

Straightwall caliber FCDs use the same roll or taper crimp dies that are in the seat/crimp dies for that caliber, but have a resizing ring that resizes the cartridge after the bullet has been seated. I am less impressed with this type of die, but it can be useful to correct problems, although often diagnosing and fixing the issue at it's source if often a better long term solution. Then again there is the advantage of separating the seating and crimping operations.

[Shakey Jake]

Keep in mind that the bottleneck rifle caliber FCDs are a different animal than the straightwall pistol caliber FCDs. The rifle FCDs are a collet style and do not post seat resize. Their main advantage is that trim length is relatively irrelevant. They can often achieve a heavier crimp without worrying about buckling the case. These are extremely useful dies IMO.

Straightwall caliber FCDs use the same roll or taper crimp dies that are in the seat/crimp dies for that caliber, but have a resizing ring that resizes the cartridge after the bullet has been seated. I am less impressed with this type of die, but it can be useful to correct problems, although often diagnosing and fixing the issue at it's source if often a better long term solution. Then again there is the advantage of separating the seating and crimping operations.

Quite correct. I have both. I use the FCD on my .243, 25-06, and .280 Remington on the bullets with a cannulure.

[Mistered]

Straightwall caliber FCDs use the same roll or taper crimp dies that are in the seat/crimp dies for that caliber,

Actually this is not entirely accurate as my .357 Mag FCD is a collet style and not a roll crimp configuration.

I have never heard this before and in reality there would be no advantage to a roll crimp die as a secondary step as a roll crimp action already exists with the seating die in a typical three die set.

[clovishound]

Lee makes a collet style crimp only die in .357. It does not post seat resize. The Lee FCD for .357 magnum uses the same roll crimp as the seat/crimp die and has a carbide ring that resizes the case during the crimp operation.

[Ojaileveraction]

The Lee FCD for .357 magnum uses the same roll crimp as the seat/crimp die and has a carbide ring that resizes the case during the crimp operation.

The 357mag, Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die has the carbide ring and it is still a collet crimp not a roll crimp. At least the one I have is. They wold call it a "Roll Crimp Die" if it were.

[CT_Shooter]

According to their published documentation, Lee makes two different types of crimp dies for straight cartridges. Their Carbide FCD die performs a roll crimp and also sizes the cartridge; their Collet FCD die performs a "rifle type" crimp and does not size the cartridge.

Lee Collet Style Crimp Die .357

No other crimping system can apply as secure a crimp as the Lee collet style Factory Crimp. No crimping groove required in jacketed or cast bullets, the die is so powrful it will form a crimp groove if one is not present.

357 Magnum Collet Style Crimp Die. Incorporates a collet to apply a rifle type crimp to the case. Makes these very difficult to crimp cartridges a delight to reload. Bullets do not need a crimp groove, as the collet is so powerful it will form one. NOTE: This die is not carbide.
https://leeprecision.com/357-magnum-cus ... p-die.html

CARBIDE FACTORY CRIMP DIE 38/357

Lee 38 Special/357 Magnum/357 MAX Carbide Factory Crimp Die sizes the cartridge while being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability. This die applies a roll crimp. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp. Trim Length is not critical so this extra operation takes less time than it would if cases were trimmed and chamfered. A firm crimp is essential for dependable and accurate ammunition, as it eliminates the problems of poor ignition of slow burning magnum powders.
https://leeprecision.com/carbide-factor ... 8-357.html

The Lee FCD for .357 magnum uses the same roll crimp as the seat/crimp die and has a carbide ring that resizes the case during the crimp operation.

The 357mag, Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die has the carbide ring and it is still a collet crimp not a roll crimp. At least the one I have is. They wold call it a "Roll Crimp Die" if it were.

[Ojaileveraction]

I stand corre cted and apologize if my wrong information caused any problem.

I must have misread in my research.

I just checked the crimp of my Lee Carbide Crimp Die to the crimp on my RCBS seating die and the are exactly the same.

[Albertaktm]

I ordered the carbide FCD for the .44 thinking it was the right move. Now everyone on another forum is saying remove the carbide ring with a punch (directions were given) as the carbide ring and I quote. " will resize our preferred 431-.432 cast bullets"

Just when I think I have this FCD figured out.. I have order 500 .429" bullets. Should I remove this ring as a precaution?

I do have the option of changing the FCD from Carbide to collet style as it won't be shipping until Monday.

I was told that you need lube for the collet style.