Henry U.S. Survival Rifle AR-7 - Myths and Rumours

[armycat]

I have had a Charter Arm AR-7 for many years and it has served me well and I carried it for years backpacking, canoeing and kayaking. It was for emergencies and occasional plinking.

Reading numerous firearm related forums I noticed a lot of negative comments towards AR-7s regardless of who they were manufactured by. I am surprised him many posts I saw about breaking or shattering a stock but never a single photo.

I am going to address some of these comments based on my experience with the Henry AR-7 in a series of posts.

Obviously anyone can add to this thread but I would request comments are kept to first hand experience.

[armycat]

Myth and Rumour 1 - How many rounds can you put through a Henry AR-7

Comments in the forums include "...on a steady diet of ammo 10-20 rounds ok but run it over 100 without cleaning and it's extremely unreliable", "10 rounds tops with 4 stoppages before the final one", and "pot metal on hollow plastic wouldn't take long for something to break or melt".

As of today I have fired 3683 rounds through my Henry AR-7. I have had a total of 95 FTF, 86 FTE and 25 misfires. Most of the FTF are attributed to one magazine. My total failure rate currently is 5.62%.

On the last two range trips I have fired 495 rounds and had 5 FTF, a 1.01% failure rate. I used 19 different types of ammunition with manufacturer rated velocities ranged from 1070 fps to 1850 fps. The rifle was cleaned before these range trips so thats 495 rounds without any cleaning.

Using two magazines I fired a serial of ten 8 round groups changing magazines and refilling magazine as fast as I could using CCI Mini Mag 40gr CPRN. Total time 282.69 sec. (4min 42.69 sec)

I also did two 25 round rapid fire using CCI Mini Mag 36gr CPHP, the first 25 rounds in 17.30 sec, the second in 17.95 sec.

Nothing broken or melted and I consider 5 FTF in 495 rounds to be reliable.

[leverjc]

Armycat, good factual post. I haven't shot an AR7 since the 1980's but I believe your results were similar to what I remember. The reason I sold mine was the accuracy problems I had with it not that it was really bad but I think I was spoiled by a Model 60 that was a real tack driver and just more fun to shoot.

[ChefDuane]

Myth and Rumour 1 - How many rounds can you put through a Henry AR-7

Comments in the forums include "...on a steady diet of ammo 10-20 rounds ok but run it over 100 without cleaning and it's extremely unreliable", "10 rounds tops with 4 stoppages before the final one", and "pot metal on hollow plastic wouldn't take long for something to break or melt".

As of today I have fired 3683 rounds through my Henry AR-7. I have had a total of 95 FTF, 86 FTE and 25 misfires. Most of the FTF are attributed to one magazine. My total failure rate currently is 5.62%.

On the last two range trips I have fired 495 rounds and had 5 FTF, a 1.01% failure rate. I used 19 different types of ammunition with manufacturer rated velocities ranged from 1070 fps to 1850 fps. The rifle was cleaned before these range trips so that 495 without any cleaning.

Using two magazines I fired a serial of ten 8 round groups changing magazines and refilling magazine as fast as I could using CCI Mini Mag 40gr CPRN. Total time 282.69 sec. (4min 42.69 sec)

I also did two 25 round rapid fire using CCI Mini Mag 36gr CPHP, the first 25 rounds in 17.30 sec, the second in 17.95 sec.

Nothing broken or melted and I consider 5 FTF in 495 rounds to be reliable.

OMG. Now you've done it. You've muddled the discussion with all these facts!! Look for the naysayers to immediately begin denouncing you as a rotten person with a personal agenda of mean and nasty intentions buy using FACTS of all things!!

[Mags]

...

OMG. Now you've done it. You've muddled the discussion with all these facts!! Look for the naysayers to immediately begin denouncing you as a rotten person with a personal agenda of mean and nasty intentions buy [BY] using FACTS of all things!!

I don't think that would happen from the members of this forum. But watch out, if the know nothing CNN/FOX talking heads find out, then you'll be in for a good meaningless thrashing.

[North Star]

I am not trying to derail the thread, but I wanted to ask about the AR- 7 . My Dad worked for Fairchild Industries back in the mid 60's. At that point Fairchild Industries owned Armalite Industries. I believe that Armalite was the first to manufacture the AR-7. He purchased one during that time and I now own it. It was known then as the "Survival Rifle" then. The Survival Rifle made a debut in the movies in a James Bond 007 movie about the same time. "From Russia with Love" I believe. I was just curious as to know it's history up to the time that Henry started manufacturing . My experience has been very positive with this version of the AR-7. It has been very accurate and I have enjoyed shooting it over the years. I have not experienced any FTF or FTE 's ever. Great little rifle .

[armycat]

The Armalite AR-7 was designed by Eugene Stoner at Armalite Inc and division of Fairchild Aircraft in 1959. It was designed as a survival rifle for the U.S. Airforce, but I have read conflicting information about weather it was actually adopted. It has several features that the AR-5 rifle had but the AR-5 was bolt action and chambered in .22 Hornet.

Several companies have manufactured versions of the AR-7 and I have read conflicting information on the interchangeability of parts. I have a Charter Arms and Henry H002B version and the stocks are not interchangeable. I have not tried the internal parts.

Copied from Wikipedia which referenced the Blue Book of Gun Values
1959-1973: ArmaLite
1973-1990: Charter Arms
1990-1997: Survival Arms - Cocoa, Florida
1998-2004: AR-7 Industries - LLC, Meriden, Connecticut (bought by ArmaLite in 2004)
1997–2007: Henry Repeating Arms Co. - Brooklyn, New York
2007–present: Henry Repeating Arms Co. - Bayonne, New Jersey

Henry has made several changes from the original design including increasing the size of the stock so it can hold two spare magazines as well as a magazine in the receiver when it is stowed. They also added a small feed ramp to the barrel. However the Armalite and Charter Arms versions had foam filling the voids in the butt stock and these rifles truly float. The Henry version does not have the foam and is buoyant but in my experience will sink after a period of time.

I am jealous of your Armalite AR-7. I don't have one yet but someday. I know nothing about the Survival Arms and AR-7 Industries versions. Original Armalites seem to have a good reputation for functioning correctly. Charters Arms versions seem to have a reputation for not working well however, mine has served me well and I am happy with it.

[North Star]

Thanks armycat for the history lesson. I really appreciate it.

[armycat]

MYTH AND RUMOUR 2 - Rapid Fire Will Cause Parts to Melt / No Foreend You Will Burn Your Fingers on the Barrel

Comments in the forums include "no foreend so you burn your fingers on the barrel", "actually left some burn marks on the inside of the stock where the plastic touches the barrel", and "I actually did 8 one time swapped and did the second magazine of 8 so fast I scorched the inside of the plastic stock from the heat."

Firstly the stock does not touch the barrel so the second quote is clearly false. As far as heat, yes the barrel will heat up when fired. Today using two magazines and reloading the magazines as fast as I could I fired 72 rounds in 4 min 10.47 sec (250.47 sec) and another 70 rounds and cleared two misfires in 4 min 8.53 sec (248.53 sec) with no noticeable damage to any plastic component. After each serial the barrel was hot, but not hot enough to burn my skin. I grabbed the barrel with my fingers completely around it. It was hot but not uncomfortable to hold.

I would like to repeat this test with a IR Temperature Gun just to get an accurate reading of the barrel temperature. CCI Mini Mag 40gr CPRN were used for this test.

Today I fired 295 rounds and had 5 FTF and 5 Misfires. Failure rate 3.4%. Total for the rifle is 3978 rounds, 100 FTF, 87 FTE and 30 Misfires. Failure Rate 5.46%. 754 rounds have been fired through the rifle since it was last cleaned.

2 FTF were with CCI Mini Mag 40gr CPRN as the action was being manually cycled while using Mag 2 a magazine I have had lots of problems with. 3 FTF were with Remington Yellow Jacket 33 gr TCHP while manually cycling the action.

2 Misfires were with CCI Mini Mag 40gr CPRN and occurred during the rapid fire serials. I lost one round when it was ejected. The other looked like a good strike from the firing pin and fired when tried again. The other 3 Misfires were with CCI AR Tactical 40gr CPRN and might have been light strikes. Photo is a fired cartridge case on the left and misfired cartridge on the right.

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[Cofisher]

Good info brother. We all appreciate first hand experience. I have always wanted an AR-7. Maybe someday.

[armycat]

MYTH AND RUMOUR 3 - POI Shifts with Barrel Temperature

Comments from forums include "my plastic coated barrel is obviously designed for one or two accurate shots. After that heat takes a toll on accuracy", "My experience is after 7 or so rapid shots the barrel heats. This causes the Grouping to open up much more" and "when the polymer barrel heats up it starts to warp and will walk rounds right off the target.

These comments seem to be true. To test this I fired an 8 round group at a target. Shots were rapid. I marked the bullet holes in the target with orange dots. I then fired nine 8 round groups at the nine targets. The last group was fired at the first target with the orange dots. The nine groups were fired as fast as I could refill magazines, the first 72 rounds in 4 min 10.47 sec, the second 70 rounds plus ejecting two Misfires in 4 min 8.53 sec. I marked the bullet holes with orange stickers with black X on them. I then allowed the barrel to cool and fired a final 8 round group at the first target.

The first photo is the first group. The second photo the orange stickers covering the first group and the ninth group. The third photo is the first and ninth group covered with the orange stickers and the tenth group. The fourth photo is the complete target before the final cool barrel group was fired.

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Group size seems to have opened up and shifted to the right but trying to maintain speed degraded marksmanship so some of this could be the shooter not the firearm.

I think I will try this in a different format to see if the results are different. I'll shoot a slow well aimed group, then four fast mags off target to heat the barrel. Then another slow well aimed group. Four more fast mags off target to heat the barrel more followed by a final well aimed group.

[JEBar]

looking forward to your report, it should be interesting

[armycat]

MYTH AND RUMOUR 4 - The Breech is Polymer/Plastic

Ok, I don't know it this is a rumour, an unclear explanation or another change in the rifle design. I read two posts where the writer claimed that the breech was made of polymer or plastic. When a failure to eject occurred and the rim of the cartridge case was pushed into the breech it damaged it and eventually caused enough damage that the bolt would not go fully home.

On my rifle the breech end is metal. There are three round spots where the polymer is visible through the metal on the breech face. It would be possible for the cartridge case rim to hit these polymer spots. I have fired 3978 rounds through my rifle and had 87 failures to eject. I did not track the types of failures to eject, some the of empty cartridge cases were pushed back into the chamber, some were wedged between the breech face and the bolt and some resulted in a stovepipe. So far there is no noticeable damage on my barrel.

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The Armalite and Charter Arms variants had aluminum barrels with a metal barrel liner. I do not know what the barrels were like on the Survival Arms or AR-7 Industries variants.

If anyone has a polymer or plastic barrel with a different breech than shown in my photos could you post a photo and list the manufacturer and model number of your rifle?

I contacted Herny Repeating Arms to see if the could provide me with a list of variations but they were unable to provide any information.

[armycat]

MYTH AND RUMOUR 5 - Full Auto When Dirty

Posts include "I found out that if you use dirty ammo the AR-7 can go full auto in as little as 200 rounds without cleaning" and "it would occasionally give you bursts but that was after shooting and crap built up in the receiver".

I can't get mine to due this. First time I fired 1013 rounds without cleaning the rifle. This included 80 rounds from the ranges misfire box. The ammunition was dirty and covered in powdered rust from the inside of the container.

The last session I fired 754 rounds without cleaning the rifle. On the last range trip I had a couple of light strikes. I cleaned the rifle and for the first time removed the firing pin. Prior to removing it the firing pin would move forward and backward with some resistance and would not move side to side. After cleaning in moves forward and backward easily and has some side to side movement.

I think it would be possible to build up enough carbon between the firing pin and the bolt that it could jam in to forward position causing a slam fire as a new cartridge is loaded into the chamber. I don't think the trigger and hammer engagement could be affected. There has never been that much carbon or debris in the receiver.

Photos are the carbon build up on the firing pin and the firing pin and bolt. The firing pin retaining pin can be removed with a 1/8" punch and put back in with a roll pin punch. The retaining pin does not need to be completely removed.

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Video on how the AR-7 works.(Not my video)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7_52-vpOc

[armycat]

MYTH AND RUMOUR 6 - Firing Mechanism Wears Out.

Posts include - "I've heard the action wears out easily in these weapons. As such, I've always heard never use it as a plinker." and "the firing mechanism inside is famous for wearing and starting to double or triple when fired."

I guess this depends on what your definition of easily is. I have now fired 4260 rounds through my rifle. I cleaned it last week and disassembled the firing mechanism (trigger, trigger pivot pin, hammer and hammer pivot pin). I was surprised how little wear there is on these parts. The trigger finish has worn off where it rubs on the receiver. The pivot pins have lost the finish on the ends and the bolt has lost quite a bit of its finish. There is no significant wearing visible where the trigger and hammer engage each other. The hammer is shiny where it contacts the firing pin and there a tiny amount of peening on the hammer. Not enough to see but could be felt when rubbing a finger across it.

Everything is intact and functioning and nothing is close to being worn out. I have never experienced a double or triple.

The threading on the receiver where the barrel nut threads on are still strong. Not sure how many times I have assembled and disassembled the rifle.

[JEBar]

thank you for your continued reporting .... Henry's AR-7 is clearly a fine product

[armycat]

MYTH AND RUMOUR 7 - The Henry U.S. Survival Rifle (AR-7) Floats

In my experience it does not float. When I first purchased the rifle I tested it in a tub of water. It was basicallly under water in 21.42 seconds. By comparison I tested my Charter Arms AR-7 and the stock sank butt down but several inches of the stock where it joins the receiver remained above the surface for 30 minutes before I got bored and stopped timing. Both rifles were tested with the components stowed in the stock.

Yesterday I tried the Henry again. I filled a tub with water. The tub was large enough that the rifle would be able to sink in any orientation. The rifle was stowed in the stock with two magazines. I placed the stock on its side on the waters surface and started timing. The stock rotated 90 degrees and then started sinking butt first. At 48.53 seconds it was completely submerged and would have kept sinking if I had deeper water. When I removed it the stock was completely full of water.

I think it would float longer assembled because it would float barrel down trapping more air against the butt cap. If I can find a suitable body of water I will try it. With the rifle stowed all the weight is at the butt end which causes the butt to sink first and all the air comes out where the hole for the bolt which attaches to the receiver is.

[armycat]

I broke the 5,000 round mark. At 5,138 rounds today. The action is broken in and the rifle is running more reliably with lower velocity ammo around 1050 fps. Copper plated ammo works best and CCI Mini Mags are my go to ammo. Mostly 36 gr CPHP only because that is more common than the 40 gr CPRN.

Failure rate is hovering around 5.2%. Today I had 8 misfires, 7 of which fired second try. One wouldn't fire. 50% were the first round where I manually operated the bolt to chamber the first round. It's been 408 rounds since it was last cleaned and there is a think layer of carbon on the breech face. I'll give it a good cleaning and see if the misfires go away. By comparison my 10/22 failure rate was 2% today but it was cleaner to start with and failures were FTFs.

Tried some CCI Clean 40 gr Poly Coated Lead Red Round Nose. 50 rounds, no FTF or FTE but 4 on the misfires were with this ammo.

[armycat]

It's been almost a year but hit 6,056 rounds today. The failure rate is about 4.9% for all FTE, FTF and misfires. Nothing has worn out and no parts have broken yet.

The failure is probably higher than what is should be due to high round counts without cleaning, some questionable ammo being run through it and some of the other tests I have done on it. None of my other rifle have been thrown down ice fishing holes to see if the float, left outside at -40 overnight to see if the cold causes parts to break when fired or spent days sitting on the bottom of a boat hull bouncing around with other gear.

A U.S. Survival rifle that is properly broken in and cleaned every 100-200 rounds would likely have a much lower failure rate.

[armycat]

MYTH AND RUMOU 8 - You can't clean a U.S. Survival Rifle with solvent because the plastic will melt.

This may or may not be true depending on what you consider to be solvent. Acetone would certainly do damage to the ABS parts of the rifle. Not sure about Varsol.

I use a lot of Hoppes No 9 solvent when cleaning most of my firearms and it has never done any damage. I have also used liquid Wipeout, aerosol Wipeout, M-Pro 7 Gun Cleaner, Oil and Solvent with no adverse affect.