So ... what's a "survival rifle" anyway?

[BMCTED]

'Springfield' M6 Scout...22LR over 410. Strangely, made by CZ.

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Definitely a neat little gun. Its even fitted to accept sling swivels.

I would love it if they built and sold it like the Thompson/Center Contender with a choice of chamberings for the top barrel to match the pistol on your hip, like .38/.357 magnum, 9mm, .45acp and etc. and maybe 20 or 12 gauge on the bottom.

And maybe came up with an on board cleaning kit. I don't care if it floats, but I'd sure like to be able to run something through the bore if I dropped it nose-first into the snow or muck.

Does the rear sight fold down for storage? Are the sights adjustable?

[Vaquero]

Just my thoughts on this:

The firearm, if any, has limited uses in survival depending on the specifics of the situation. In some situations you are the rabbit, not the wolf, and making a lot of noise may not be in your interests. A good knife, and some wire for snares, plus some knowledge of basic survival skills can serve you better, especially if you are the hunted, not the hunter.

Good points Gene.

RP

[Hatchdog]

I’ve always liked the look of the M6 Scout firearm. Just so utility looking…

[BMCTED]

Just my thoughts on this:

The firearm, if any, has limited uses in survival depending on the specifics of the situation. In some situations you are the rabbit, not the wolf, and making a lot of noise may not be in your interests. A good knife, and some wire for snares, plus some knowledge of basic survival skills can serve you better, especially if you are the hunted, not the hunter.

While all of that is true, it does not answer the question I asked.

Given a survival situation, what do you think a "Survival Rifle" is and why? Please explain your ideas on what caliber(s) it should be chambered in, it's length, weight, construction materials, COST, operating system, features, needs, wants ... and anything else you can think of.

[GunnyGene]

Just my thoughts on this:

The firearm, if any, has limited uses in survival depending on the specifics of the situation. In some situations you are the rabbit, not the wolf, and making a lot of noise may not be in your interests. A good knife, and some wire for snares, plus some knowledge of basic survival skills can serve you better, especially if you are the hunted, not the hunter.

While all of that is true, it does not answer the question I asked.

Given a survival situation, what do you think a "Survival Rifle" is and why? Please explain your ideas on what caliber(s) it should be chambered in, it's length, weight, construction materials, COST, operating system, features, needs, wants ... and anything else you can think of.

Sorry to disappoint, but in my opinion the term "survival rifle" is no different than the term "assault rifle", or any of a dozen other marketing exercises. All are simply marketing, albeit to different audiences.

[markiver54]

I believe the best survival firearm would depend largely on your environment. Whether you need to hunt for food, defend against grizzly bears or fend off two legged predators in an urban environment. I know one can't choose where they might have to fight to survive, but it's difficult to say which weapon would be the best for survival in general. I guess ANY firearm would be better than none at all to improve your chances.

[BMCTED]

All are simply marketing, albeit to different audiences.

Perhaps.

I remember all the arguments in magazines and on forums over the validity of Col. Cooper's Scout Rifle. If the concept made sense to you, you bought one or built one. If it didn't fit you, you didn't. Maybe that was marketing. I say different strokes for different folks.

Heck, some folks buy replicas of old cowboy guns ... or collect old military rifles. And some folks just wouldn't have one.

However, various military s have commissioned and issued survival arms of various types for a while now. I'll warrant the military's interest came LONG before the public even cared about such a thing. After all, the public already had a shotgun by the door or in the gun rack out in their truck.

Aircrews have generally carried handguns, revolvers or automatics, since WW I. During WW II, the German Luftwaffe issued the M30 drilling (3 barreled rifle & shotgun) which was intended to be used by aircrews for hunting and self-defense against natural predators. As mentioned in a post above, the Soviet Space Agency had the TP-82 built for missions in space after a very frightened Cosmonaut insisted on one. The USAF had a long interest in survival rifles, and formerly adopted several. The IDF actually bought AR-7 Survival Rifles and issued them to their fighter pilots. I suppose all of this could be called a form of "simply marketing", if somebody really wanted to press the point. The military s are selling the notion of "surviving" to their aircrews.

For myself, I'm kind of sold on the idea of a reliable 12 gauge close at hand and a good stockpile of various types of ammo for it. My aren't all "tactical-ed out", just a set of sights, a sling and a shorter barrel. Good as both a grocery getter and home defense weapon with the right ammo. My wife can shoot it, and do well with it. I actually like it better for her then the 9mm I bought her. These shotguns make a lot of sense to me. Please note that they are not the only firearms I own, not by a long shot.

On the other hand, we have Hy Hunter and The T-62 Civilian Defense Weapon. Marketing at its finest.

from_1962_showing_the_AR7_design_modified_to_be_a_M1_carbine_a_Tommy_gun_or_a_Broomhandle_Mauser.jpg (52.4 KiB) Viewed 12667 times

The German Luftwaffe M-30 Drilling survival firearm. Two 12 gauge shotgun barrels on top and a 9.3x74mmR rifle barrel on the bottom.:

Sauer M.30 Luftwaffe Survival Drilling 3.jpg (115.74 KiB) Viewed 12666 times

Israeli AR-7 Survival Rifle:

AR7 Israeli wire stock note carry bag and claning kit.jpg (80.91 KiB) Viewed 12651 times

[PBSnooker]

I would love to have one of those drillings. Santa, are you listening?

[The Happy Kaboomer]

Most people here and out in the world couldn't survive out in boonies/no man's land with an arm load of rifles.

[armycat]

Bring this back on track. I think a survival rifle is a rifle you have immediately available when you the unexpected occurs. The requirements may vary depending on the environment you are in and if you wish to remain legal where you are may dictate your choices.

My father worked in northern Canada for decades. The firearm of choice for camps and crews were sporterized Lee Enfields. Extremely cheap to buy when they were initially purchased, robust and reliable. Main concern was bears in camp but I know of one instance where small game was harvested when they were stuck due to poor weather and the helicopters couldn’t get in.

I am in Canada so carrying a handgun of any sort is not possible. I spend some time in the back country but generally I am no more than a days walk from my vehicle. My biggest concern is a vehicle breakdown or possibly getting lost. I feel having a firearm provides me with the ability to harvest small game and can be used for signalling.

The AR-7 with CCI Mini Mags provides good reliability and acceptable accuracy to 50 yards. Again being in Canada open carry of a long arm in some areas may not be illegal can cause some concerns and possibly some unwanted attention from law enforcement. The AR-7 fits in my pack, no one can see it and I have it with me. When I am far enough out I can remove it from my pack and carry it assembled or disassembled with the sling I made. Being able to carry it disassembled makes it convenient to carry so there is never an excuse to not have it with me even if it’s just a quick trip to the creek for water or search for firewood.

It is a tool and in the environment and context I use it in it is only one of several tools in my bag. Emergency shelter, fire starter, knife, water purifier, water bottle, food, stainless steel mug, whistle, signal mirror, para cord, snare wire and some first aid supplies are also always in my bag. Knife and fire starter are always on me as well.

[BMCTED]

I would love to have one of those drillings. Santa, are you listening?

You would have to be a VERY good boy to have Santa bring you one of these Survival Rifles. When I went to get that photo, I didn't even look at any of the price tags!

It is a VERY pretty firearm. I think the Russian TP-82 is as well. Europeans bring an awful lot of class to Survival Firearms.

[armycat]

Mine is a Ruger 10/22 TD with a Magpul Backpacker stock and Trijicon RMR red dot.
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What I find interesting with your rifle is that the red dot is on the barrel and since it is a take down version you have the ability to roughly confirm your zero without firing a shot.

This is a feature the AR-7 has. By removing the screw that holds the rear sight on you can see through the receiver and down the bore when the bolt is removed. Depending on who manufactured the AR-7 the bolt may or may not have an ejector groove. Those that have the ejector groove can be removed without tools. Those without the ejector groove require the side plate and ejector to be removed before the bolt can be removed. Not very practical and opening up the receiver increases the chances of losing other parts from the firing mechanism.

Current versions of the Henry rifle have the ejector groove as D’O all Armalite rifles I have seen. Charter Arms rifle may or may not have it.

[5shot]

Without defining exactly what sort of survival situation we're looking at here my first choice wouldn't be a rifle. In my opinion there is no more versatile firearm that a 4" .357 revolver. Discreet, lightweight, accurate. powerful and dependable. That pretty much describes a Smith model 66 or other similar revolvers. Wadcutter .38's for small edible stuff and full power 158's for hunting or defense from man or beast.

[roddy]

'Springfield' M6 Scout...22LR over 410. Strangely, made by CZ.

20180903_095320.jpg

Definitely a neat little gun. Its even fitted to accept sling swivels...Does the rear sight fold down for storage? Are the sights adjustable?

The rear sight does fold down, but not for storage...there is a peep for .22 use, and when it is folded down, a V-notch pops up for .410 use. There is a spring and detent ball that does a really good job of keeping the rear sight where you put it. There is no elevation adjustment, but windage is drift adjustable.

[Oldbrass]

My answer is a 38 snubnose or a glock 43... A Survival situation isn't planned, be it simple as a vehicle breakdown in a remote area or drastic as stranded on the interstate during an EMP attack and total collapse of society. What ever firearm you have with you will be your Survival weapon, all our weapons and ammo will be home (except what your carrying). . I'd love to say my choice is my AR-15 but do I take it with me everywhere I go, I do not. What I do take is a 38 snubnose or a glock 43.

[Vaquero]

One of my AR's goes with me quite a bit.
Especially when traveling out of town, I'm in SC at the moment visiting family. It came with me, with a half dozen Full mags.

RP

[armycat]

One of my AR's goes with me quite a bit.
Especially when traveling out of town, I'm in SC at the moment visiting family. It came with me, with a half dozen Full mags.

RP

I wish I had the freedom to have an AR with me when I felt it was nessecary. Unfortunately, in Canada we have had several rounds of gun control legislation dropped on us. AKs, HKs, FNs, Galil, Aug, etc have been banned for decades. In 2020 ARs, Mini 14/Mini 30, M-14s, CZ-858/Vz-58 and many more were banned. An amendment is in motion now that will ban any centrefire rifle with detachable magazine.

Prior to 2020 ARs were classified as restricted so you could only transport them to and from the range. No hunting or shooting in the back country.

Back to what is a survival rifle anyway. Whatever someone chooses and for whatever reason you need to know how if functions, know how to maintain it and know how to use it in the context that you have decided it is required for.

I have several examples of people that have purchase specific firearms for specific requirements but never used them except for on a static range in good weather. I had a similar experience last year but mine was due to lack of time and not lack of desire to train as I intended to use the firearm. The Canadian Rimfire Precision Series ran a X/22 Competition my area. X/22 is a rimfire competition that incorporates long range PRS style stages out to 300m, short range PRS style stages similar to NRL22, speed steel changes similar to steel challenge, NRA small bore silhouette, 50m and 100m benchrest fired from benches or prone. The match is most suited for 10/22 style rifles. I built a 10/22 for the match. Got it to the range and zeroed the optic and red dot and gathered minimal data from 0 to 300m all from a bench right before the match. Day of the match there were some challenges which impacted my overall score. Most of these challenges could have been easily overcome if I had the time to shoot prone, offhand, from the support side and from some props prior to the match I would have been more successful. The match environment is forgiving, a crappy score is the worst result. In a survival situation whatever that may be may not be forgiving.

[Mags]

Where I'm at is pretty isolated. I worry a little that at some point the baddies might discover this place. I have an AR and several magazines at the ready for such a situation that I hope never comes.

Closer to topic intent, I think, I have a Rossi .22 TD that I have used for small rodents. I've never really thought of it though in terms of a 'survival rifle'. Like others CCI mini mag is my ammo of choice.

[daytime dave]

I have pondered this thread very carefully. In a pure survival situation, I'd have to say that it would be my Henry AR-7. It sit's in it's taken down form in my bug out back pack. If I had only seconds to take something and run, that bag is prepacked with necessary survival items. The AR-7 and 100 rds of .22 lr is ready to go with the other items that would also be necessary for a survival grab and go.

[markiver54]

I have pondered this thread very carefully. In a pure survival situation, I'd have to say that it would be my Henry AR-7. It sit's in it's taken down form in my bug out back pack. If I had only seconds to take something and run, that bag is prepacked with necessary survival items. The AR-7 and 100 rds of .22 lr is ready to go with the other items that would also be necessary for a survival grab and go.

Sounds very practical. Would be quick and easy to grab a handgun to take along if you so desired as well. Preferably a center fire.