Self defense ammo in my 2" .38 Special

[Blackdog]

I have a Taurus 85 2" stainless +P revolver that I sometimes carry.
I want a factory load that I can depend on, should I ever need the little revolver.
My 1911 has some old Winchester Black Talon ammo in it. I know they don't call it that now, what is it's new name and is it a suggested defense round?
Or, should I look for something newer.
Michael

PS: No hand loads in self defense - my best friend is a lawyer and advises against any hand load for self defense. (not because of performance, because of legal issues - "you made a bullet to kill someone?")
M

[GFK]

I like JHP. Lately, I have been purchasing Hornady:

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun/#!/

[PT7]

My SD revolver is a Ruger LCR .38 Special + P with 3" barrel. My preference is a non +P, BHA 125gr JHP ammo. I think Black Hills is a great brand, and it performs well out of my LCR. And agree with your lawyer friend, Blackdog, on never having reloads in an HD firearm. Sage advice.
PT7

I have a Taurus 85 2" stainless +P revolver that I sometimes carry.
I want a factory load that I can depend on, should I ever need the little revolver.
My 1911 has some old Winchester Black Talon ammo in it. I know they don't call it that now, what is it's new name and is it a suggested defense round?
Or, should I look for something newer.
Michael

PS: No hand loads in self defense - my best friend is a lawyer and advises against any hand load for self defense. (not because of performance, because of legal issues - "you made a bullet to kill someone?")
M

[Shakey Jake]

My personal preference in handguns with a short barrel is to use a load that can be effective yet easily controlled. Those little monsters can really hammer your hand. I use a 110 gr jhp bullet with 4.5 gr of Bulleseye or 6.0 gr of PowerPistol. I really don't mind carrying reloads for self defense. Empty the gun and who's to know?

[GunnyGene]

I have a Taurus 85 2" stainless +P revolver that I sometimes carry.
I want a factory load that I can depend on, should I ever need the little revolver.
My 1911 has some old Winchester Black Talon ammo in it. I know they don't call it that now, what is it's new name and is it a suggested defense round?
Or, should I look for something newer.
Michael

PS: No hand loads in self defense - my best friend is a lawyer and advises against any hand load for self defense. (not because of performance, because of legal issues - "you made a bullet to kill someone?")
M

I think he's pulling your leg. Does he not know that any bullet (hand load or otherwise) can kill? And you do have feral hogs in TX that are known to attack people sometimes, right?

If he was my lawyer, friend or not, I'd fire him for giving that kind of "advice".

[GFK]

This same question was posed on Marlin's site as well. I typically try to keep in mind backdrop. In houses and apartments, bullets can go through walls. Out in the woods, it probably doesn't matter as much. When the dust settles, the real fight probably starts. Just my 2 cent.

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/hand ... loads.html

[GunnyGene]

This same question was posed on Marlin's site as well. I typically try to keep in mind backdrop. In houses and apartments, bullets can go through walls. Out in the woods, it probably doesn't matter as much. When the dust settles, the real fight probably starts. Just my 2 cent.

https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/hand ... loads.html

Load to SAAMI specs and the prosecutions argument collapses. Besides there are many reasons why people reload - primarily to save money, or as a hobby. Arguing that a person reloads out of an intent to cause harm is specious and easily countered, and any lawyer trying to make that case will only make a fool of himself.

My carry ammo (9mm) is 135gr +P Hornady Critical Duty. 17rds +1 in the pipe, and sometimes with 2 extra mags on my belt. Why CD? Because it shoots well in my Ruger, and I get a significant discount on it at my LGS. And yes, it will stop a threat if I do my part, which is why I practice with it regularly. So why do I practice regularly? Because I'm 74yo, can't fight off or outrun the typical bad guy anymore, and I can't carry a cop.

[GFK]

I must be missing something. My point was and is that we are responsible for every round released from a firearm. We can all choose our own poison. I wasn't disagreeing with anyone. I was simply stating that every round may not be suitable for every situation. Hence, the reason for some many to choose from. I agree, it is best to practice as often as you can. But, the best weapon is between one's ears. Just my 2 cent.

[BigAl52]

I carry Hornadys self defense ammo in my LCRX 38. I think its a 110 with the red tip. I have also heard the same thing about reloaded ammo and it wasnt from a lawyer it was from people who are teaching CCW classes here in Colorado.

[GunnyGene]

I must be missing something. My point was and is that we are responsible for every round released from a firearm. We can all choose our own poison. I wasn't disagreeing with anyone. I was simply stating that every round may not be suitable for every situation. Hence, the reason for some many to choose from. I agree, it is best to practice as often as you can. But, the best weapon is between one's ears. Just my 2 cent.

No argument with any of that.

[Blackdog]

Post withdrawn

[clovishound]

You might find this website informative. It lists many different brands and types of SD ammo along with terminal diameters and pictures. It even tests the same ammo with a 2" barrel and then again with a 4". Looks to me that the 125 grain Golden Saber +P does very well out of a 2".

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolv ... tics-test/

Nice thing is that you can go through the info and pick out a couple top contenders then check for price and availability.

I do think that ammo selection is probably more critical for a .38, especially with a short barrel, than it would be with something like a .45.

[Dahliathemeh]

I have a Taurus Ultra Lite that I have on my person at all times. I like a lot of other people have Hornady as well.

[DAVIDF]

This is from Dr. Gary K. Roberts (the most knowledgeable terminal ballistics expert in the business):

Currently, the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP, Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B), and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2” BUG; Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers.

He also recommends a plain old target wadcutter.

[Blackdog]

This is from Dr. Gary K. Roberts (the most knowledgeable terminal ballistics expert in the business):

Currently, the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP, Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B), and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2” BUG; Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers.

He also recommends a plain old target wadcutter.

I like "Plain old Target Wadcutters" - they dump all their energy quickly and cause massive tissue shock. But, I haven't found any on dealers shelves. What brand do you suggest if I mail order?
M

[CT_Shooter]

I like "Plain old Target Wadcutters" - they dump all their energy quickly and cause massive tissue shock. But, I haven't found any on dealers shelves. What brand do you suggest if I mail order?

Blackdog, you can buy Remington Target 38 Special Ammo 158 Grain Semi-Wadcutter at TargetSportsUSA.com and other online vendors, but you may also want to consider this opinion published by Chuck Hawks this year that recommends other choices instead.

A Special Note on Snub-Nose .38 Revolvers: The Cor-Bon .38 Special +P 125 grain JHP and 158 grain LSWCHP FBI load are not the best choice for 2" or 3" barrel revolvers. The short barrel does not provide enough velocity to ensure reliable expansion with these loads and the unpleasant and hard-to-control recoil hurts snub-nose accuracy (as well as your hand). Controllability is crucial and I recommend standard pressure (non +P) loads for any .38 snub-nose.

Standard Pressure (non +P) loads for short barreled revolvers:

Federal Premium 125 grain NyClad HP (P38MA) - Known as the "Chief's Special" load, this is my preferred 2"-3" barrel snub-nose revolver load and it is the best load for both standard and +P rated snub-nose revolvers. The Nylon-coated hollow point was specifically designed to expand at lower velocities from short barreled .38s. For many years this load was available only to law enforcement agencies, but it is again available to the general public.

Other acceptable standard pressure .38 loads include the Winchester Super-X 110 grain Silvertip, Federal Low Recoil Personal Defense 110 grain Hydra-Shok JHP, Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain FTX and Sig Sauer Elite 125 grain V-Crown.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

[DAVIDF]

This is from Dr. Gary K. Roberts (the most knowledgeable terminal ballistics expert in the business):

Currently, the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP, Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B), and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2” BUG; Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers.

He also recommends a plain old target wadcutter.

I like "Plain old Target Wadcutters" - they dump all their energy quickly and cause massive tissue shock. But, I haven't found any on dealers shelves. What brand do you suggest if I mail order?
M

I have no idea. I haven't ordered ammo in a long time, only reloading components. I take a look and see if I find anything.

I just searched and found Black Hills wadcutter loads https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.ph ... -wadcutter. Expensive, but Black Hills QC is second to none. Of course, that is why I hand load. I know mine is inspected every step of the way.

[Blackdog]

This is from Dr. Gary K. Roberts (the most knowledgeable terminal ballistics expert in the business):

Currently, the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP, Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B), and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2” BUG; Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers.

He also recommends a plain old target wadcutter.

I like "Plain old Target Wadcutters" - they dump all their energy quickly and cause massive tissue shock. But, I haven't found any on dealers shelves. What brand do you suggest if I mail order?
M

I have no idea. I haven't ordered ammo in a long time, only reloading components. I take a look and see if I find anything.

I just searched and found Black Hills wadcutter loads https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.ph ... -wadcutter. Expensive, but Black Hills QC is second to none. Of course, that is why I hand load. I know mine is inspected every step of the way.

Great info - thanks,
M

[Shakey Jake]

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal ... -4457.aspx

[PT7]

Reasonable cost, Jake, compared to the BHA 125gr JHPs I've been using. The best I've found so far on the BHA is a cost of 65-76 cents per round. 36 cents per round for this Federal plinker & SD ammo sure looks much better for the budget. Thanks for the link.

PT7

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal ... -4457.aspx