Henry Rifle Forums

I have some questions for you folks on the forum who have experience with shooting cast bullets. Most all of my shooting has been with jacketed rounds. With my Henry on the way I'll be wanting to shoot cowboy action loads through my .45-70. Been researching the bullets a bit as far as difference in cast lead and hard cast. So the hard cast bullets are going to contain an alloy of lead and other metals. Some say they are also lubed for extra protection against lead fouling in the barrel. This probably helps but doesn't eliminate , is that correct ? Then with the gas checks , are they seen only on the lead bullets or also the hard cast ? Do the gas checks help prevent much lead fouling in say just a cast lead bullet ? How about manufacturers of CAS ammo like HSM , Black Hills, Buffalo , etc. as far as experiences shooting these loads ? Any insight much appreciated .

It'll depend on the pressure of the load.
Cowboy loads at low pressure low velocities can use bullet of a bh of 12 w/o checks.
Higher pressure higher velocity loads need a higher bh and a check

Oh and all cast bullets need to be lubed.
Get a copy of Lyman cast bullet handbook.
It's worth it for the information.

Jdl447 wrote:Oh and all cast bullets need to be lubed.
Get a copy of Lyman cast bullet handbook.
It's worth it for the information.

Thank you much. Am I right in assuming your referring to handloaded cast bullets in that the b/h would be indicated somewhere on the packaging ? Probably not noted I would imagine on say the box for factory loads. Are the factory loads all lubed ?

As stated by Jdl447 - if you are planning on shooting cast bullets, get the Lyman cast bullet handbook. It has several pages of very useful information about barrel leading.

If you are a member of the Ruger forum, check out this article by lowegan. https://rugerforum.net/library/19869-le ... lvers.html
He has years of experience and is very knowledgeable. If you are not a member of the forum or a member with less than 10 posts, you may not be able to view the article.

There is alot a variables that will cause leading lube and bullet size. You need to slug the bore to obtain the right bullet for your rifle. I quit shooting lead because Im not fond of handling it anymore and I got tired of the leading issues. I now use the copper plated bullets for plinking and if I want to shoot at a higher rate I shoot copper jacketed. There is also a company called Rose Distribution who sells Zero Bullets. They are jacketed bullets at a good price. You might check them out. I know there are members here who shoot them. Al

Steve51 wrote:As stated by Jdl447 - if you are planning on shooting cast bullets, get the Lyman cast bullet handbook. It has several pages of very useful information about barrel leading.

If you are a member of the Ruger forum, check out this article by lowegan. https://rugerforum.net/library/19869-le ... lvers.html
He has years of experience and is very knowledgeable. If you are not a member of the forum or a member with less than 10 posts, you may not be able to view the article.

Thank you for the information sir. Really appreciate it. Thanks

BigAl52 wrote:There is alot a variables that will cause leading lube and bullet size. You need to slug the bore to obtain the right bullet for your rifle. I quit shooting lead because Im not fond of handling it anymore and I got tired of the leading issues. I not used the copper plated bullets for plinking and if I want to shoot at a higher rate I shoot copper jacketed. There is also a company called Rose Distribution who sells Zero Bullets. They are jacketed bullets at a good price. You might check them out. I know there are members here who shoot them. Al

I value your input Big Al. I have bought some ammo already and allot it is copper jacketed. Several varying loads and manufacturers. Thought maybe the low velocity cowboy loads would be a bit more economical and less recoil for plinking. The 405 gr Remington's would seem to.be a good round for fun shooting but they sure are pricey. I'm not set up or quite ready to reload. I know this would probably be my best option. If I may ask , what does it mean to slug a barrel?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10102 ... barrel-kit. You can get one of these or if you know someone in blackpowder who might have some lead balls or bullets close to the bore size of the gun. You can run one down the barrel and measure it with a set of calipers. Make sure your lube up the ball or bullet before doing so. Berrys makes some 350 grain copper plated bullets I have had some luck with for plinking. Thats the bullet I used the universal clays with. Its a mild load and its fun to shoot.

I have switched from bare cast, to coated cast. No lube needed as the coating takes care of that. The coating also keeps them from leading, as long as the coating stays intact. I have had some cast that had a fragile coating, and experienced some leading, but for the most part they eliminate it. They are also much cleaner to load. They don't get lube all over your dies and hands. They are a little more expensive than plain cast, but much cheaper than jacketed.

I posted this in another thread a few days ago but it seem relevant here
I simplified my casting and have settled on 3 alloys
2:6:92 (16bhn) (hardball) for any heavy pistol or rifle plinking loads
2:2:96(11-12 bhn) my hunting bullet alloy, I have driven these to 1900fps gas checked and 1600fps as a plain base with Hi Tek. Accuracy is as good as jacketed leading has been a non issue for me.
1:3:96 (10bhn) Light pistol loads in the 650-900fps range I only use this alloy when I don't have a stash of wheel weights and scrap lead that is my normal choice for these. Lube is either Hi-Tek or LLA depending on if I want pretty looking bullets. I do get some leading more so with the LLA but even after 500rds I don't see a noticeable drop in accuracy.

Hi-Tek makes for a pretty bullet and you don't have to worry about sticky lube when handling or building up in dies but It doesn't make up for poor bullet fit or alloy selection.

Hard cast will act like a FMJ in most hunting situations, if you do get any expansion it will often shear I much prefer a softer alloy for hunting that will expand and hold its deformed shape without shearing.

Harder is not always the answer to leading and accuracy issues if bullet fit isn't spot on often a softer bullet will give better accuracy and less leading.

Leading isn't as big an issue as a lot of people make out, a tight fitting patch will remove a lot and a stiff brush what is left.

BigAl52 wrote:https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10102 ... barrel-kit. You can get one of these or if you know someone in blackpowder who might have some lead balls or bullets close to the bore size of the gun. You can run one down the barrel and measure it with a set of calipers. Make sure your lube up the ball or bullet before doing so. Berrys makes some 350 grain copper plated bullets I have had some luck with for plinking. Thats the bullet I used the universal clays with. Its a mild load and its fun to shoot.

Good information Big Al. We shoot muzzleloaders. Have .50 and .54 cal mostly more modern bullets but I have some lead bullets somewhere and I did have a.45 cal back when. I may have some lead left. Those might get me close. Again appreciate the helpful tips and the link.

clovishound wrote:I have switched from bare cast, to coated cast. No lube needed as the coating takes care of that. The coating also keeps them from leading, as long as the coating stays intact. I have had some cast that had a fragile coating, and experienced some leading, but for the most part they eliminate it. They are also much cleaner to load. They don't get lube all over your dies and hands. They are a little more expensive than plain cast, but much cheaper than jacketed.

Thanks Clovis for the information. You folks are great to share your knowledge. Appreciate it.

I remember Ranch Roper posting recently about the Fiocchi loads he shoots and how they are very dark in color as far as the bullet. I would imagine that is the lube they use

220 wrote:I posted this in another thread a few days ago but it seem relevant here
I simplified my casting and have settled on 3 alloys
2:6:92 (16bhn) (hardball) for any heavy pistol or rifle plinking loads
2:2:96(11-12 bhn) my hunting bullet alloy, I have driven these to 1900fps gas checked and 1600fps as a plain base with Hi Tek. Accuracy is as good as jacketed leading has been a non issue for me.
1:3:96 (10bhn) Light pistol loads in the 650-900fps range I only use this alloy when I don't have a stash of wheel weights and scrap lead that is my normal choice for these. Lube is either Hi-Tek or LLA depending on if I want pretty looking bullets. I do get some leading more so with the LLA but even after 500rds I don't see a noticeable drop in accuracy.

Hi-Tek makes for a pretty bullet and you don't have to worry about sticky lube when handling or building up in dies but It doesn't make up for poor bullet fit or alloy selection.

Hard cast will act like a FMJ in most hunting situations, if you do get any expansion it will often shear I much prefer a softer alloy for hunting that will expand and hold its deformed shape without shearing.

Harder is not always the answer to leading and accuracy issues if bullet fit isn't spot on often a softer bullet will give better accuracy and less leading.

Leading isn't as big an issue as a lot of people make out, a tight fitting patch will remove a lot and a stiff brush what is left.

Hey thanks a lot 220. Great detailed info there and answers on my concerns with leading. You make the point,same as Big Al was saying, about bullet fit and the better the fit the less leading. I never really give much thought about a modern factory rifle barrel having variable tolerances as far as diameter. So if a .45-70 is .458 inches , how much variability is there in differing bullets and actual bore measurements in rifles ?

220 ... or are you only referring to hand cast bullets and not factory loads. Or is there enough variation in the factory loads that one needs to measure actual diameter for the best fit with these also ?

I just wonder the b/h of say standard factory cast lead alloy bullets in a cowboy load such as HSM brand or others. Would you be able to find out by contacting the company would you think ? I doubt that information is on the cartridge box but I don't know that to be the case.

I don't know that I would get into casting my own bullets like many of you do but it is very interesting. Again I appreciate all the advice. It's one of many reasons I like this forum so much. 220, out of curiosity, in your first post about those ratios you listed. Are those numbers representing the percentages of lead and alloys you use like antimony and zinc , etc.? And I guess you conduct your own b/h test on your hand made bullets ?

Ozarkridgerunner wrote:220 ... or are you only referring to hand cast bullets and not factory loads. Or is there enough variation in the factory loads that one needs to measure actual diameter for the best fit with these also ?

Many bullet manufacturers offer their cast bullets in various diameters. You can specify the exact diameter when you order. They frequently have 3 different diameters. It is always a good idea to measure them when you get your batch. I take at least one from every new batch and measure diameter and weight, just to be sure. It only takes a few seconds to check them, and I also check a random handful when I get a batch from a new to me supplier, just to make sure they are consistent.

FYI, Dardas has soft lead slugs for slugging your barrel, and will measure them for you for free, if you send them to them. Note: some riflings cannot be measured accurately with standard calipers/micrometers as a land and groove match up 180º from each other. This is often the case with revolvers.

Appreciate all of the feedback, Clovis. I'm learning a lot from you folks for sure