Ammo comparison: 30-30 vs .357

[GunnyGene]

Y'all that have either or both in these calibers in a lever gun might find this interesting. Does this comparison sound about right? The ballistic results follow at the link. Originally published in 2011, soooooo.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/lever ... 57-magnum/

Lever-Action Ballistics Comparison: .30-30 vs .357 Magnum

The Guns

Our .357 Magnum carbine: a new-production Marlin 1894C. It has an 18″ round barrel, weighs a little over six pounds, and holds 9+1 rounds.

Our .357 Magnum pistol: a 1980s Smith & Wesson Model 686 with a 4″ barrel. If you don’t own one, you should.

Our .30-30: an early-1990s Winchester Model 1894 ‘Trapper’ with a 16.5″ barrel. It weighs six pounds and holds 5+1 rounds.
The Ammunition

Through our .357s we fired the following loads:

125-grain SJHP handloads filled with 17.0 grains of Vitavhouri N-110, a slow-burning magnum pistol powder.
125-grain Remington SJHPs.
158-grain lead SWC handloads, filled with 5.7 grains of Unique. This load is equivalent to a .38 Special +P.
158-grain Sellier & Bellot SJFPs.
158-grain Magtech RNL .38 Specials.


The .30-30 was fed the following:

150-grain Sellier & Bellot JSPs.
160-grain Hornady Leverevolution polymer-tipped spitzers.
170-grain Remington JSPs.

[Vaquero]

Pretty much, but for the past couple years now my Rossi has been devouring mostly MBC's 180 gr Pugnose.

RP

[Rifletom]

I'm with Randy on the .357 rifle and 180's. In 30-30, it's almost always Hornady 170gr FN with some Win 748.

[Vaquero]

Agree on the 170's Tom, but one of the 3 Marlins actually groups the 150's better.
The pair of Winnies both like the 170's also.

RP

[JEBar]

our vintage Model 94 was passed down from my grandfather .... he took more black bear, boar and deer with it than I'll ever see .... he fired 150 or 170gr Winchester Silvertips .... with them no longer on the market, I switched to 150 gr Winchester/Nosler Combined Technology Ballistic Silvertips .... they shoot flat, they shoot hard and they group really well .... as already mentioned, W748 is our preferred powder .... in our 357 we fire 158 gr JHP's pushed by W296 or H110 .... up to 50 or 75 yard for deer, either the 30-30 or 357 will quickly put down a whitetail at a hundred or better, I prefer a 30-30 .... for all but the smallest black bear or hogs I'd prefer the 30-30 with 170 gr'ers

[North Country Gal]

Not surprised at all, given I used to shoot the 30-30 in a 14" Contender handgun and got velocities very close to that 30-30 Trapper lever gun. Of course, recoil in that 30-30 Contender was not exactly mild, but it was manageable, given my experience with shooting the Contender. One of my pet peeves over the years has been how ignorant gun winter hacks have always dissed the 30-30. In our woods, where 50 yards is often a long shot, it is still a very popular deer round. Does the job without destroying a lot of meat, but still has the reach for a longer shot. Still a great woods cartridge after all these years.

[Rifletom]

You're not kidding NCG. That round has been around too long and done everything expected of it sooo long. Underrated and deadly. Spot on NCG!

[Vaquero]

I've taken more deer with a 30-30 than anything else, and I took a nice 8 pt. with my Rossi 357 rifle quite some years ago. The shot was around 80, 90 yds..with 158 gr. jsp he went maybe 5 yds. Was my first with a personal hand load.

RP

[leverjc]

I wish they had done their comparisons by both using 20" barrels. The 30-30 really shines with lighter bullets in both my 336's. I have never tried to reload a lot of top end 170 gran bullets because neither one of my rifles will shoot them accurately. The .357 rounds they are comparing to the 30-30 are near max loads and the 30-30' factory loads are mid performance factory rounds. The top end loads in one of my 336's will better the loads I read about by 300fps in a 20" barrel.

[GunnyGene]

I read this as more of a basic introduction to the differences between a pistol caliber lever and a rifle caliber lever, aimed at people who are fairly new to firearms generally, and lever guns specifically. The calibers chosen were based on the popularity of them, instead of say .45-70 vs .44mag, and were just to illustrate the options,imo. Mag capacity, range, terminal performance, etc., and to provide some guidance regarding intended use - hunting, home defense, and so on. Folks who are new to the game typically don't even know what questions to ask, and this gives them a foundation to work from when they're talking to the counter guy.

Sure, here in MS I could legally use a .22lr revolver to hunt deer, or a .45-70 as a home defense weapon. But they are certainly not the best choices, based on my intended use.

[Kissmybrass]

I read this as more of a basic introduction to the differences between a pistol caliber lever and a rifle caliber lever, aimed at people who are fairly new to firearms generally, and lever guns specifically. The calibers chosen were based on the popularity of them, instead of say .45-70 vs .44mag, and were just to illustrate the options,imo. Mag capacity, range, terminal performance, etc., and to provide some guidance regarding intended use - hunting, home defense, and so on. Folks who are new to the game typically don't even know what questions to ask, and this gives them a foundation to work from when they're talking to the counter guy.

Sure, here in MS I could legally use a .22lr revolver to hunt deer, or a .45-70 as a home defense weapon. But they are certainly not the best choices, based on my intended use.

So is the 45-70 home defense option just too messy? lolol

[GunnyGene]

I read this as more of a basic introduction to the differences between a pistol caliber lever and a rifle caliber lever, aimed at people who are fairly new to firearms generally, and lever guns specifically. The calibers chosen were based on the popularity of them, instead of say .45-70 vs .44mag, and were just to illustrate the options,imo. Mag capacity, range, terminal performance, etc., and to provide some guidance regarding intended use - hunting, home defense, and so on. Folks who are new to the game typically don't even know what questions to ask, and this gives them a foundation to work from when they're talking to the counter guy.

Sure, here in MS I could legally use a .22lr revolver to hunt deer, or a .45-70 as a home defense weapon. But they are certainly not the best choices, based on my intended use.

So is the 45-70 home defense option just too messy? lolol

For me it would be. But not quite as messy as my old 590 Mariner.

[Redthies]

Gunny, that’s a nice 590! I just picked up a cheapo Turkish Akar 870 clone for home/bear defence. Sold my .45-70 to buy a nice Italian over/under. Smiles all around...

Below is my .357 BBSC, my 336 BL in .30-30 and the new Turkish delight. The article is spot on, and the reason I bought the 336. There is no way a .357 is going to reliably take a big BC mule deer buck at 150-200 yards. .30-30 LeverEvolution will get it done though!

Monday is a range day for the 336 as it’s game time here now.

[GFK]

Gunny, that’s a nice 590! I just picked up a cheapo Turkish Akar 870 clone for home/bear defence. Sold my .45-70 to buy a nice Italian over/under. Smiles all around...

Below is my .357 BBSC, my 336 BL in .30-30 and the new Turkish delight. The article is spot on, and the reason I bought the 336. There is no way a .357 is going to reliably take a big BC mule deer buck at 150-200 yards. .30-30 LeverEvolution will get it done though!

Monday is a range day for the 336 as it’s game time here now.

The Henry looks nice! Was that the one that you had a Cloverleaf on?

[Redthies]

The Henry looks nice! Was that the one that you had a Cloverleaf on?

No, that was on my .45-70 Marlin 1895 GS. I honestly prefer the Skinner Express I have on my Henrys. You can get a round aperture sight from RPP, and I’d probably go that route. The cloverleaf is cool, but I found it a bit distracting and not nearly as effective as I thought it might be. The overall construction of the RPP stuff is fantastic and definitely worth checking out if you haven’t tried their stuff.

[Vaquero]

Gunny, that’s a nice 590! I just picked up a cheapo Turkish Akar 870 clone for home/bear defence. Sold my .45-70 to buy a nice Italian over/under. Smiles all around...

Below is my .357 BBSC, my 336 BL in .30-30 and the new Turkish delight. The article is spot on, and the reason I bought the 336. There is no way a .357 is going to reliably take a big BC mule deer buck at 150-200 yards. .30-30 LeverEvolution will get it done though!

Monday is a range day for the 336 as it’s game time here now.

Red, what kind of meat damage with the LE's on those big deer?
I didn't care for them in the 444, in the 35 Rem. not so bad.
In a couple of my 30-30's they looked good on paper, as did the others.
But we also have a smaller deer.

RP

[GFK]

The Henry looks nice! Was that the one that you had a Cloverleaf on?

No, that was on my .45-70 Marlin 1895 GS. I honestly prefer the Skinner Express I have on my Henrys. You can get a round aperture sight from RPP, and I’d probably go that route. The cloverleaf is cool, but I found it a bit distracting and not nearly as effective as I thought it might be. The overall construction of the RPP stuff is fantastic and definitely worth checking out if you haven’t tried their stuff.

Thanks! I guess that I should have read the signature line. I got a aperture from RPP. I have not put it on yet. I plan to compare the two. I suspect the field of view may be greater with the Cloverleaf. But, I wonder how the sight picture would be with the aperture. If better, I probably with go with the aperture.

[Redthies]

GFK- Try them both and see what you like. I just didn’t like the Cloverleaf as much as I thought I would.

[Redthies]

Red, what kind of meat damage with the LE's on those big deer?
I didn't care for them in the 444, in the 35 Rem. not so bad.
In a couple of my 30-30's they looked good on paper, as did the others.
But we also have a smaller deer.

RP

We are hunting Columbia Blacktail, so smaller than mule deer. Probably similar to southeastern whitetail. The meat damage was with my buddies .30-06. I’m optimistic that the Barnes will help with that.

[220]

Have shot a few fallow deer here in Aus with the 30/30LE, an exceptionally large fallow might go 180lbs. Lots of damage with shoulder shots, enough that the shoulders usually ended up in the dog food pile. I would imagine if you placed them behind the shoulder and stayed away from heavy bone damage and lost meat would be significantly less but in the country I was hunting I was happy to sacrifice some lost meat for the increased certainty of anchoring them on the spot.