Any Electricians Out There?

[ESquared]

First, on scale of 1-10, I'd give myself about a 7 when it comes to DIY household stuff, but I'm never afraid to push the envelope.

That said, electrical panel things kinda give me pause. I'm okay swapping out a light switch, replacing a lamp fixture, etc., but digging into a main panel has been a place I've not gone. Kind of makes YouTube dangerous, with guys diving right in.

Anyway, I have about a 40 year old home, with your basic circuit breakers in the basement, one of which is a 20 amp GFI (I guess) variety, with a white "reset" button. It's connected to outlets that, by today's code should be GFCI outlets, as they're all close to either bathroom sinks or outside on a patio.

I've only been here for a year-and-a-half, but the circuit breaker seems to be failing slowly, as it will trip and won't re-set right away, but, after a few days, seems to be okay, resets and all is good. Makes no sense to me. AND, it seems like the breaker switch is actually damp, another head-scratcher.

SO, the question is, shouldn't I just convert those outlets to GFCI outlets and then replace the circuit breaker with a standard 20 amp breaker?

[Mags]

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Yes that is an option. But you don't need a GFCI outlet at every outlet. Just the one closest to the breaker panel in the wired string of outlets. Down stream outlets get wired to the 'load' side of the GFCI outlet.

Its an older home you say so check the wire gauge. Some older homes used 14 gauge wire for outlets and someone later might have replaced an original 15A breaker with a 20A. For 12 gauge wire 20A breaker, 14 gauge wire 15A breaker.

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SO, the question is, shouldn't I just convert those outlets to GFCI outlets and then replace the circuit breaker with a standard 20 amp breaker?

[tractortad]

It may be cheaper and easier to just replace your panel ckt brkr with another GFCI - that may be why an electrician originally put it there - because he probably put multiple GFCI outlets on that breaker instead of separate branch ckts for outdoor and bathroom. Good call by Mags to check the wiring - I bet your bathroom wiring is not 12ga (rated for 20amp). If it is 14ga(15amp) instead of 12ga you should go with a 15 GFCI ckt brkr. Circuit breakers also should not be damp - which may be the reason that GFCI is tripping - look to see that water is not coming in to your panel through the main feeder lines...

[cooperhawk]

I have also found that GFCI breakers deteriorate over time. I've replaced two that kept breaking and now everything works OK.

PS, not an electrician but when I wire I do get a permit and ask the inspector just what he wants to see, and then I please him.

[ESquared]

It may be cheaper and easier to just replace your panel ckt brkr with another GFCI - that may be why an electrician originally put it there - because he probably put multiple GFCI outlets on that breaker instead of separate branch ckts for outdoor and bathroom. Good call by Mags to check the wiring - I bet your bathroom wiring is not 12ga (rated for 20amp). If it is 14ga(15amp) instead of 12ga you should go with a 15 GFCI ckt brkr. Circuit breakers also should not be damp - which may be the reason that GFCI is tripping - look to see that water is not coming in to your panel through the main feeder lines...

Thanks for all that. I'll check the wiring when I start to pull the wall outlets out to see what's what.

The weird thing about the "dampness" is that this particular breaker is in the middle of a stack of breakers and I"ve not had any other issues. I'll pull the cover and look for signs of moisture, but can't imagine where it would be coming from...

Gotta pull the cover to replace the breaker anyway!

[Mags]

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If it's just that breaker it could be sweating lubricant off the internal contacts from old age wearout overheating.

Maintenance replacement of a breaker or electrical outlets may or may not require a permit, depending on your local building code.

....The weird thing about the "dampness" is that this particular breaker is in the middle of a stack of breakers and I"ve not had any other issues. I'll pull the cover and look for signs of moisture, but can't imagine where it would be coming from...

[Mags]

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Maybe, however breakers for some old panels are sometimes hard to find and expensive. Agree that it is best option to replace at the panel.

It may be cheaper and easier to just replace your panel ckt brkr with another GFCI - ...

...

[markiver54]

GFI & GFCI...same exact thing, as you may know Evan. Both are "Ground Fault Interupters " .

[ESquared]

GFI & GFCI...same exact thing, as you may know Evan. Both are "Ground Fault Interupters " .

I guess I knew that, but who knows what I know? I dunno!

I'll take a picture of this particular breaker and take it to the store. Very interesting comment about it "sweating."

[Mags]

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ooze, seep; vocabulary alternatives.

GFI & GFCI...same exact thing, as you may know Evan. Both are "Ground Fault Interupters " .

I guess I knew that, but who knows what I know? I dunno!

I'll take a picture of this particular breaker and take it to the store. Very interesting comment about it "sweating."

[220]

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ooze, seep; vocabulary alternatives.

GFI & GFCI...same exact thing, as you may know Evan. Both are "Ground Fault Interupters " .

RCD, anyone?

[ESquared]

.
ooze, seep; vocabulary alternatives.

GFI & GFCI...same exact thing, as you may know Evan. Both are "Ground Fault Interupters " .

I guess I knew that, but who knows what I know? I dunno!

I'll take a picture of this particular breaker and take it to the store. Very interesting comment about it "sweating."

Yeah, I get it. Makes sense, since it's the only one in the panel that's a GFI and everything else is bone dry.

[BigAl52]

Theres alot of sweating that goes on in KC Evan. Just sayin

[ESquared]

Theres alot of sweating that goes on in KC Evan. Just sayin

NO kidding! I'm the poster-boy for that statement! Not today, though! Cool and calm, but storms on the way.

[Mags]

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You have company, likewise. No matter the temp. I lift a finger and start pouring. Have to keep changing out my dew rag for a dry one.

Theres alot of sweating that goes on in KC Evan. Just sayin

NO kidding! I'm the poster-boy for that statement! Not today, though! Cool and calm, but storms on the way.

[ESquared]

DONE!

They're easy enough to pop out of the panel, which means there's no juice running into or out of it, so from there it was "Columbo time."

Original circuit breaker mfr was bought out by Eaton, and, using the Cat. # off of the sticker on the side of the dead breaker (which was still dangling by the wires from the panel), I was able to Google/cross-reference my way to the new Eaton equivalent part number.

Couple of phone calls to local electrical supply shops and scored it this morning.

White and black wires unscrewed from the breaker and the pig-tail ground wire unscrewed from the panel. Reverse the order of screwing down/attaching wires to where they're supposed to go, make sure the switch is in the OFF position, snap it back into the panel, flip it ON and VOILA!

Never even had to turn off the main panel! Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks!?!

[Cofisher]

Proud of you boy!

[Grunt67]

I had a GFCI in the kitchen a few months ago, that would trip occasionally. I finally replaced it with a new one, no more problems. I also learned they do deteriorate very time. This had been there since 1991.
FWIW.

[markiver54]

Yes, found that out myself a couple times. Glad things are back in order!