Accuracy Expectations with .357 Big Boy Steel

[Hatchdog]

Thanks Hatchdog. That is a fantastic group.
Part of me is happy that there is possibility with these rifles, but I'm still a bit skeptical that my rifle will get there. If mine can't shoot a knot with wadcutters at 25 yards, something must be wrong.
I'll have to get some of those 158XTPs. And also see what I have left from the hunter pistol silhouette days, I think I have 170 and 180 bullets. I've had good luck with the XTPs in .44 and .45LC in revolvers.

There’s been talk on this site that Henry recommends 158 grain bullets for their .357 carbines. I didn’t try any other bullets since this Hornady shot so well. 12.4 is on the low end of the charge range but since I don’t intend to hunt with this rifle I selected the most accurate charge.

This target was from my load devolopement.

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[GFK]

Correction: My Marlin .357 has a semi-buckhorn with fiber optic front post, not a peep sight. It is my Henry 30-30 that has a peep sight. I guess that I should shoot them more often. Anyway, below is what I can do with the peep on the Henry:

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[leverjc]

I had real problems with Henry 357 barrels. I have had about the same results or worse with three out of the four barrels that Henry put on my BBS. One was shooting half inch groups at fifty yards tell the barrel split at the bore. The new gun they sent me shoots about six inch groups at fifty yards then they get bigger after about 15 rounds.

If you have a bore scope take a look, if you don't you could try shooting one more different load and if that doesn't work any better send it back to Henry. With a good barrel you should get excellent accuracy. Hope they do better for you than they did for me.

[rickhem]

Thanks to Hatchdog, Vaquero, 220, GFK, and Leverjc for your responses. I'm glad to see that there are similar rifles capable of grouping well in this chambering, The comment by Leverjc gives me pause, since he's had less than positive results. I'll definitely play around with some different bullets and powders, probably using 50 yards as my evaluation distance. I know Henry has a very good reputation for resolving complaints, but I want to do my due diligence before turning to that. From what I'm seeing, a 5 MOA group is not an unreasonable expectation, and if I can't achieve that or better, I'll assemble my data and open a dialogue with Henry.

And should anyone have anything additional to contribute, please do. These threads live on and provide valuable information for a long time, which is a benefit to future readers.

[rickhem]

To add a bit of extra information to this thread, I spent a little time this past weekend shooting my rifle, and learned a few things. I took a ride on Friday night and purchased some additional ammo to test, specifically PMC Bronze loads, with 158 grain JSP bullets. I also bought a box of Hornady 158 grain XTP bullets for when I load my own. But first, as stated earlier, I wanted to get the rifle shooting groups before I invested a lot of time and money reloading for a rifle that never grouped acceptably.

The first thing I learned is that my Bushnell Prime 1-4X32 scope has more than a little parallax at 50 yards. With the rifle set in the Stinger rest I'm using, I can move my head back and forth behind the scope, and see the crosshairs move back and forth across the face of the target. That's not good. My solution has been to let my head slide back a bit, to the distant part of the scope's eye relief, and get to where the image of the crosshairs and target is narrowed, and surrounded by the black shadow edge that results from having my eye too far away. I'm able to use that effect like an aperture sight to keep the target and crosshairs centered, and negate that effect of parallax.

Next observation was that my rifle does not like to be held firmly when shooting it. My bolt guns, and my AR, all like firm shoulder pressure when shooting from a bipod. Shooting Service Rifle with the sling on the AR, firm pressure ensures minimal movement and more consistent results. Not so shooting the Henry from the Stinger. I've discovered that a "looser" hold on the rifle gives better results. Much like how a "military hold" is suggested for use with spring piston airguns, letting the Henry move a little in recoil led to tighter groups.

Another interesting observation, which may not apply to other rifles due to the height of the optic above boreline, is that a 25 yard zero seemed to work well at 75 and 100 yards. Its pretty common knowledge that a 50 yard zero will put you pretty darn close at 200 yards for most 30-06, .308, .243, .223, whatever centerfire, so I guess that curve (parabola) is tighter for the handgun cartridge rifles. This came as a happy accident at the end of my shooting session. After getting a couple good groups with the PMC Bronze ammo, and wanting to end on a positive note, I shot once at 25 and 75 yards, then moved those target stands out to 50 and 100 yards. Those four shots, and four different distances, using the same target center point-of-aim, gave me what would have been about a 3 inch group. That'll work for any deer I see out to 100. I took pictures but don't seem to be able to load them.

Anyway, just wanted to add some extra info to help anyone dealing with similar issues.

[leverjc]

Good to hear that you getting good groups with your rifle. Lever actions can be sensitive to for end hold. I recently was trying to sight in an Uburti 30-30 at 100yds I was changing my hold on the bench without realizing it and my groups were 2.5"-3" different. I was glad I finally figured it out.

[220]

Good to hear you are making progress, parallax is one of the reasons all my pistol cal levers wear what are designated as rimfire scopes. The shorter parallax setting along with the fact they are often more compact makes them ideal on pistol caliber rifles and the range they are used at.
With group shooting the most important thing is consistency from shot to shot. Shooting my levers off a bench I use bags but set up higher and closer to the receiver than when shooting a bolt. This allows me to grip the fore end comfortably and in a similar manner and with similar pressure to what I would use when shooting from any field position. The fact it is a comfortable and natural position probably makes the repeatability from shot to shot better and results in very little difference in point of impact when shooting from field positions.
Regardless of technique it is a matter of finding what works for us individually, I am sure some people would think I do it all wrong but it works for me, works consistently and in the end that is what it is all about.
I actually found a pic of the best 5 shot group I have ever fired at 100y from my 357 while going through some old photos. Well under 1" certainly a bit of luck although the rifle does shoot under 2" consistently at that distance

[JEBar]

below is a picture of one of our grandsons holding a Gatorade bottle lid with 2 rounds from his Henry BBS 357 .... they were fired with our 158 gr reloads from a rest at 100 yards when he was 8 years old .... in my book that's pretty dang good accuracy and consistency

[MOAgirl]

First thing I would recommend is throw the dot scope in the garbage. I wouldn't put one of those on a cap gun. In regards to your second scope, my standard is buy a scope about half the cost of the gun, so if the gun costs $700-$1000, get a $300-$500 scope. You can't expect good results with a $79 scope ever, my 7 year old son would tell you that.

[GFK]

I was told a similar thing, about the scope that came with my Marlin 336W. But, I have not wanted to invest the money into another one. I may not shoot the most accurate shots with it. Yet, I am still working out if it is me, the rifle, ammo or the scope. So far, I have been happy with the results, for what I hoping to do with use it. However, I am always looking for room for improvement. And, there is probably room for improvement in that area. The trigger does seem stiff. Since I am not much of a gunsmith, I am hoping that it will wear in. But, time will tell.

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