Henry Rifle Forums

In my Range Report yesterday http://henryrifleforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=4960, JEBar commented about eliminating as many variables as possible when sighting in a rifle. I 100% agree.

When I posted that I had sighted in my BBS .357 Magnum by shooting off hand, standing, I wasn't spouting or showing off in any fashion since I know JEBar is spot on. My son-in-law and other shootin' friends also agree. That rifle barrel floats all over the range when shooting off hand. So just briefly I'll ponder why I do this type of shooting.

I cannot ever get my cheek weld set or head low enough to shoot with a rest off a bench. Something eludes me here. Plus when my head is at that awkward position, eyeglasses and lenses 1, 2, and 3 (tri-focals) do tend to cross-over each other. And during the crossover, those lines are pretty pesky, too! I've been there and done that. As soon as I set aside the bench rest, everything clears up!

Standing and shooting off hand just feels so much more natural. I raise my rifle up and it all fits comfortably, and gives me the best position to shoot. My biggest challenge when either sighting in or shooting a rifle, is keeping that barrel from waving the wheat. I'm getting better at it, but know I'll never have a rifle sighted in for any type of target competition. And that is okay for me also since making those tinier and tinier 5-round groups is not my goal. What else can I say?

Ah, there is one more thing. Ever since I watched Davy in a shootin' match (off hand, standing) with Big Foot Mason, figured that two bullets on top of each other was doable! Check that shooting here ---> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=fe ... &FORM=VIRE

Off hand, standing is my best way to shoot, and I like it a lot.

JEBar wrote:I have to hand it to you, no way I'd try to adjust the sight on any firearm without having it firmly supported on a solid surface (AKA shooting bench) .... for me to properly adjust sights, I have to remove every possible variable that I can control .... the unsteadiness of my off hand is one such variable .... once I get the sights locked in, I will fire off hand but haven't ever been able to do so as part of the process of adjusting the sights

Good for you, PT. While standing is a very natural position for shooting, don't forget to try kneeling and, especially sitting. Those can provide the same comfortable cheek rest and, of course, are steadier.

I have the same issues at the bench with my glasses. If you can find a taller rest or an adjustable rest that goes high enough with a bag, it will help. That's what I do.

And that is okay for me also since making those tinier and tinier 5-round groups is not my goal. What else can I say?

And thats all right! Heck the targets I have posted are typically shot off hand as this comprises most of my shooting.
I will occasionally use a bench (as I will be today) such as if I am trying out some new loads and I want to confirm they are consistent and accurate and as soon as thats done I am off the bench.
Part of the problem is lever action rifles do not lend themselves to bench shooting as well a other styles. The long, narrow straight grips of most levers makes it difficult to bench rest them properly.
You might want to get a steel 'gong' you can set up and shoot at. A 3" steel gong is a great target. No need for 'tiny groups and sure know when you hit it! Bring a can of blaze orange spray paint to occasionally 'refresh'' it.
If you know a welder or metal fabricator you could have him make a nice free standing one. I have made a few myself.

Where I'm at in my current developmental phase, like JEBAR, I'm working toward removing the variables. Also making those tinier and tinier 5-round groups at 100yds. I want to be consistently inside 2 inch groups. I've managed inside 4 inches ungrouped with a forward stand/rest while sitting at a shooting table. My POA still wanders because I can't sit still long enough to lock it in. The butt stock moves with my shoulder wandering. I'll probably be getting a bag to try and minimize butt stock drift so that my shoulder has less affect.

Thanks PT for sharing. I enjoy reading about what goes on inside other folks head, where their thoughts are going, the results they hope for and achieve.

Mistered wrote:...You might want to get a steel 'gong' you can set up and shoot at. A 3" steel gong is a great target. No need for 'tiny groups and sure know when you hit it! Bring a can of blaze orange spray paint to occasionally 'refresh'' it.
If you know a welder or metal fabricator you could have him make a nice free standing one. I have made a few myself.

Friend of my daughter made this one for me. Made 2 sets of paddles for it. I don't remember the exact diameters, 3 inch-ish and 5ish I think. Anyway, hitting a paddle, it flips to the other side of the pole. Where you can shoot it again and it flips back. Not only do I get the 'gong' thud of hitting steel, but I get the joy of seeing the target react. For some reason one of the paddles is more nimble than the others. When I hit it, it flips to the other side but then bounces back to it's original position. Pole leans toward the shooter so that bullet shrapnel is deflected into the ground.

interesting concept .... thanks for posting about it

When I shoot off hand in a non hunting situation and I'm concentrating on a fixed target I find leaning against a tree or other support to be helpful. I like the kneeling position also but my knees don't! I also find when shooting off hand, I've learned to focus on the target with my rifle down then snap it to my cheek , acquire my site quickly settle it and squeeze off. The longer I try to hold on target off hand the more my rifle barrel makes circles in the air and the bigger the circles get ! Ain't as steady as I used to be. Anyway this works for me pretty well and I find it say I'm shooting at water jugs or whatever , I can quickly move from one to another keeping cheek on gun and maintaining my site picture. I can squeeze off some decently quick and accurate shots in this way.

PT, those are called shooting trees and are a blast to use. One of my favorite reactive targets for pistol work. Nnother big fan of shooting steel, here. It's 99% of my shooting on our back yard air gun range. In some ways, I think shooting steel is better practice for hunting than shooting paper bullseyes. Steel targets blend into the background more than a black bull on white paper. Simulates field shooting and hunting, better.

By the way, you can definitely use steel targets to improve your group sizes. Start out with a size large enough to give you a good percentage of hits, then start shooting the next size down, until you can do the same, and so on. That saves you tacking up paper target, but gives you a nice challenge. I especially like spinner targets that use several size spinners for this work.

For a short primer on some so-so shooting, I liked seeing the varied interest and so many responses & suggestions. I'll need to get to the outdoor range soon to ensure I use all this good stuff! Thanks to all, & WOW...it's a great list to work through!

The best part of the fun is deciding to go shoot next with a revolver or rifle. Cool to have to make such "tough" decisions!

North Country Gal wrote:Good for you, PT. While standing is a very natural position for shooting, don't forget to try kneeling and, especially sitting. Those can provide the same comfortable cheek rest and, of course, are steadier.

Mistered wrote:And thats all right! Heck the targets I have posted are typically shot off hand as this comprises most of my shooting. … Part of the problem is lever action rifles do not lend themselves to bench shooting as well a other styles. The long, narrow straight grips of most levers makes it difficult to bench rest them properly.
You might want to get a steel 'gong' you can set up and shoot at. A 3" steel gong is a great target.

Mags wrote:Where I'm at in my current developmental phase, like JEBAR, I'm working toward removing the variables. …..
Thanks PT for sharing. I enjoy reading about what goes on inside other folks head, where their thoughts are going, the results they hope for and achieve.

Mags wrote:

Mistered wrote:...You might want to get a steel 'gong' you can set up and shoot at. A 3" steel gong is a great target.....sure know when you hit it! Bring a can of blaze orange spray paint to occasionally 'refresh'' it.

Friend of my daughter made this one for me. Made 2 sets of paddles for it. I don't remember the exact diameters, 3 inch-ish and 5ish I think. Anyway, hitting a paddle, it flips to the other side of the pole. Where you can shoot it again and it flips back. ... Pole leans toward the shooter so that bullet shrapnel is deflected into the ground.

Ozarkridgerunner wrote:When I shoot off hand in a non hunting situation and I'm concentrating on a fixed target I find leaning against a tree or other support to be helpful. …... I can squeeze off some decently quick and accurate shots in this way.

North Country Gal wrote:PT, those are called shooting trees and are a blast to use. One of my favorite reactive targets for pistol work. Nother big fan of shooting steel, here. It's 99% of my shooting on our back yard air gun range. In some ways, I think shooting steel is better practice for hunting than shooting paper bullseyes. Steel targets blend into the background more than a black bull on white paper. Simulates field shooting and hunting, better.
By the way, you can definitely use steel targets to improve your group sizes. Start out with a size large enough to give you a good percentage of hits, then start shooting the next size down, until you can do the same, and so on. That saves you tacking up paper target, but gives you a nice challenge. I especially like spinner targets that use several size spinners for this work.

I saw a marked improvement in my off hand shooting when I disregarded most of what I had read over the years.

My technique now is very simple, align the sights on target, disregard the wobble concentrate on the sights and squeeze the trigger.
You can not do anything about the wobble at the time you are taking the shot, it is as good as you can hold at the time and provided you squeeze the trigger and don't jerk it the shot will land somewhere within your hold. Actually it is twice as likely to land in the middle of your hold area as the extreme right or left simple because you cross over the middle twice for every time you move left to right.

If you want to improve your hold then practice is good but simple things like increasing your core strength and improving your balance can really help.

North Country Gal wrote:PT, those are called shooting trees and are a blast to use...
By the way, you can definitely use steel targets to improve your group sizes. Start out with a size large enough to give you a good percentage of hits...

Well, something happened to a follow up post I made much earlier in the day. Anyway more specifically the apparatus is call a dueling shooting tree. The game is for two people to shoot the same number of rounds at the paddles. The panels are typically painted different colors on opposite sides, so that in the heat of the game the shooter doesn't accidentally shoot his opponents paddles. One opponent shoots only paddles on the left side of the tree, the other opponent only the right side of the tree. Whoever runs out of ammo first with the least number of paddles on their side of the tree wins the match.

Like NCG suggested I've used the tree for practicing groups. I have 12 targets out there counting both sides and don't need to visit the stand to replace a target. Just spray paint after using up all 12 sides. One trip.

75yds

220 wrote:My technique now is very simple, align the sights on target, disregard the wobble concentrate on the sights and squeeze the trigger.

I can agree. Sometimes, taking too long to aim could be a bad thing. I remember qualifying with a M16 as a correctional officer. I think we were shooting from about 100 yards. It was about 12 years ago. So, the details are not as clear as they once was. Anyway, out of a group of about 20 or so, I ending up with the best score (I guess we all could have been fairly bad). But, I simply pointed, took a quick aim and squeezed off rounds. One of the instructors was looking down my shoulder. I guess he was trying to figure out how I was aiming. I figured, it was either do or die. If I did have to shoot an inmate, I would not have much time to aim or think about it. So, I let the chips fall were they may.

I have been working on something similar with my lever action. But, I have been using a bench to check my sight alignment. Yet, sight alignment is relative. What works for one, may not work for another. The point is ordnance on target. When that is achieved, all is good. At least, that is how I see it.

Mags wrote:

Mistered wrote:...You might want to get a steel 'gong' you can set up and shoot at. A 3" steel gong is a great target. No need for 'tiny groups and sure know when you hit it! Bring a can of blaze orange spray paint to occasionally 'refresh'' it.
If you know a welder or metal fabricator you could have him make a nice free standing one. I have made a few myself.

Friend of my daughter made this one for me. Made 2 sets of paddles for it. I don't remember the exact diameters, 3 inch-ish and 5ish I think. Anyway, hitting a paddle, it flips to the other side of the pole. Where you can shoot it again and it flips back. Not only do I get the 'gong' thud of hitting steel, but I get the joy of seeing the target react. For some reason one of the paddles is more nimble than the others. When I hit it, it flips to the other side but then bounces back to it's original position. Pole leans toward the shooter so that bullet shrapnel is deflected into the ground.

20180728_085726z.jpg20180728_085738z.jpg

That's why I enjoy shooting metallic targets. I really like hearing the sound of the bullet hitting the metal. There are three "trees" like that at American Shooting Center pistol range There's is a 3" and 5" at 10 yards then another 5" at 25 yards. I think they make a better shooter out of someone over paper targets. The concentration is much higher.

Taking too long to make a shot IS a mistake. For every shot, you have a short window of opportunity to put it all together and make a good shot. That's when you're at your potential best. If that window of opportunity when you're at your best has passed, you should lower your gun, relax, then give it another try. Competition shooters know this and practice it all the time.

This DOES NOT mean you should rush your shot and snap it off, however. Consistent shooting means having a set routine for every shot and following it, starting with the way you hold, then raise the gun all the way through the shot with proper follow through. At the moment of the shot, though, 100% concentration on the sight picture is vital. You should not be thinking about any other aspect of your routine. The only way to achieve this routine and be able to switch to a 100% focus on your sight picture when it comes time to shoot is a LOT of practice.

NCG,
Will always pursue this advice.
The more practice, the better the shooter; plus more enjoyable range time will be had!

North Country Gal wrote:Taking too long to make a shot IS a mistake...
The only way to achieve this routine .... is a LOT of practice.

North Country Gal wrote:Taking too long to make a shot IS a mistake. For every shot, you have a short window of opportunity to put it all together and make a good shot. That's when you're at your potential best. If that window of opportunity when you're at your best has passed, you should lower your gun, relax, then give it another try. Competition shooters know this and practice it all the time.

This DOES NOT mean you should rush your shot and snap it off, however. Consistent shooting means having a set routine for every shot and following it, starting with the way you hold, then raise the gun all the way through the shot with proper follow through. At the moment of the shot, though, 100% concentration on the sight picture is vital. You should not be thinking about any other aspect of your routine. The only way to achieve this routine and be able to switch to a 100% focus on your sight picture when it comes time to shoot is a LOT of practice.

I'm the perfect role model for what not to do. I hold too long and while wavering, anticipate the direction rifle is going an end up snapping off a shot. More often than not I get lucky at keeping the shot at least on the target (ungrouped inside 4" at 100 yds). I do have to work at doing it right, but it seems in 'forcing' the work I'm worse and don't have as much fun with it.

Got to thinking about this after shooting last weekend. Lately it seems I have gotten too 'hung up' on shooting paper. while part of it has been due to working up optimal target loads for my Henry and Winchesters and while no doubt important in doing so, I need to get off the bench and paper once I am 'on target' and get back to field shooting. Bench and paper are no doubt essential with new loads, sights etc. but there are far too many pine cones, sticks & rocks that need to be sent flying along with jackrabbits that need to be turned into raven and vulture food!

You're right, PT. Paper punching and field shooting are not the same. When we get off the range, very few targets come with bullseyes on them. If your range allows it, shooting steel at the range is very good practice for field shooting and hunting, plus a lot of fun in the bargain.

Mistered wrote:Got to thinking about this after shooting last weekend. Lately it seems I have gotten too 'hung up' on shooting paper. while part of it has been due to working up optimal target loads for my Henry and Winchesters and while no doubt important in doing so, I need to get off the bench and paper once I am 'on target' and get back to field shooting. Bench and paper are no doubt essential with new loads, sights etc. but there are far too many pine cones, sticks & rocks that need to be sent flying along with jackrabbits that need to be turned into raven and vulture food!

This is true. Bench helps in preparing for the main event(s): fun, hunting, or shooting.

Mistered wrote:Got to thinking about this after shooting last weekend. Lately it seems I have gotten too 'hung up' on shooting paper. while part of it has been due to working up optimal target loads for my Henry and Winchesters and while no doubt important in doing so, I need to get off the bench and paper once I am 'on target' and get back to field shooting. Bench and paper are no doubt essential with new loads, sights etc. but there are far too many pine cones, sticks & rocks that need to be sent flying along with jackrabbits that need to be turned into raven and vulture food!

Those big ginormous Ponderosa pine cones I bet really dance around when hit.