Lever action design strength

[Ozarkridgerunner]

I have been doing some digging into lever action designs and strengths of the various models over the years. With the technology and advances of metallurgy of today , I'm sure a well designed firearm is capable of handling the hotter loads , i.e. the +P ammunition. That being said I have read in many reviews and opinions on such designs as the old Highwall that are still rated as some of the strongest lever gun designs ever. Then to the modern era guns , there seems to be a lot of folks in the lever gun world who allow as to the Marlin guns as being the gold standard of lever gun strength. In these comparisons I am referring to the heavy hitters , particularly the .45-70. I was wondering if some of you folks who have more knowledge than I on this subject could lend your thoughts. This is of particular interest to me as I will be a first time owner of the Henry H010CC. What are the differences in front and rear locking actions on the lever guns ? I am not looking to push the limits on hot loaded ammo in my new Henry as it should provide all the performance I need in standard loads. Looking for some kind insight on this subject from you knowledgeable levergun shooters out there. I know the Henry is a great gun and design . How does it stack up in comparison of strength with the Marlins?

[North Country Gal]

The problem is that there have been a number of actual locking designs and build designs in lever guns, over its history. All lever guns are not the same as far as action. For instance, the Browning designed Winchetser 1895 lever gun that was built to shoot the 30-06 or the even more radical Savage 99 and it's ability to shoot the 300 Savage and the like. Then there are modern rotaing bolt designs like the BLR that can handle all kinds of modern cartridges.

Big bruiser though it may be, the 45-70 is not a high pressure round and as long as you stay with appropriate loads, I doubt you could wear out any modern 45-70 lever gun and that includes the Henry, even if you shot the higher end lever loads in it. From personal experience, with those loads you'll wear out your shoulder before the gun, anyway. I would have no problem buying a Henry 45-70 in that regard.

[Ozarkridgerunner]

Thank you ma'am. You always impart sage advice and one can tell you speak from experience and knowledge on your posts and replies.

[North Country Gal]

You are so welcome. Thank-you.

[JEBar]

speaking for our Henry CCH 45-70, it has proven well over a thousand times that it can handle the highest powered 45-70 Government loads for which it is designed (not to be confused with Ruger #1 loads) .... its ability to do so is of no concern to us

[shootinthecinders]

There is an issue with the bolts of some lever actions when shooting higher powered loads in .357 and .44 magnum. I found this quote online taken from the Speer #12 reloading manual. It states: "All lever-action 357 magnum rifles have a bolt which lock at the rear.This allows the bolt to spring slightly during firing, stretching the case.Use only new or once-fired cases for Maximum loads" I and others have experienced case splits or separation as a possible result of this “slight springiness”. In my case I was using premium commercial .357 magnum ammunition with new Starline brass. I didn’t know at the time that this was a possible cause until searching many other gun forums. Being new to lever actions, I had never considered this possibility with new, unfired brass.

[Ozarkridgerunner]

Again I appreciate all of the feedback. What exactly is a Ruger # 1 only load in the .45-70 ? I assume it exceeds max pressures recommended for the other actions. I have read also they will chamber the longer 500 + grain cartridges. I don't want to supercharge a round in my Henry to the max. I just hear conflicting opinions such as which lever guns are suitable for say the Buffalo Bore or Garrett ammo. Especially if I were ever fortunate enough to get to hunt the big bad critters.

[Ozarkridgerunner]

Also back to the Ruger #1 loads , are there many if any factory loads or are these rounds strictly handloads ? If there are Ruger only factory loads are they clearly designated as such ? I would imagine in our law suit happy world they would have to really cover themselves.

[Jdl447]

45-70 in a nutshell
https://chuckhawks.com/45-70Govt.htm

[JEBar]

Also back to the Ruger #1 loads , are there many if any factory loads or are these rounds strictly handloads ? If there are Ruger only factory loads are they clearly designated as such ? I would imagine in our law suit happy world they would have to really cover themselves.

while I suspect that there may be some Ruger #1 factory loads out there, I don't ever recall seeing a box of them .... outside of some Cowboy Action ammo, the same is true for the lowest power Trapdoor Springfield loads .... the factory rounds commonly found on store shelves are commonly known as being for Marlin 1895 level actions .... Henry designs and builds its rifle actions to that meet that standard ....

[Ozarkridgerunner]

Thanks for the link and the conversation. Thanks to all again.

[JEBar]

Also back to the Ruger #1 loads , are there many if any factory loads or are these rounds strictly handloads ? If there are Ruger only factory loads are they clearly designated as such ? I would imagine in our law suit happy world they would have to really cover themselves.

while I suspect that there may be some Ruger #1 factory loads out there, I don't ever recall seeing a box of them .... outside of some Cowboy Action ammo, the same is true for the lowest power Trapdoor Springfield loads .... the factory rounds customarily found on store shelves are commonly known as being for Marlin 1895 level actions .... Henry designs and builds its rifle actions to that meet that standard ....

[Ozarkridgerunner]

Thanks JEBar , I know you have shared a good bit of information on the .45-70 and I really appreciate it. I suspect to be shooting factory rounds for now until hopefully I can get set up to do some hand loading. That being said I will probably be shooting mostly the milder factory loads. I guess I am just intrigued with the range of loads that one is capable of using out of the old workhorse. I'm also certain my ammo budget won't allow me to be feeding my Henry many of the custom loads. Just good to know from folks with experience what my gun is capable of handling if I get the opportunity. Thank you again.

[mrguvna]

I love my 45-70's but only own a Marlin and a Ruger #1 in that caliber. I would ask henry folks but I believe any factory ammo you can buy should be good to shoot out of the Henry. The Buffalo Barnes rounds are about the highest velocity you can purchase and they are good in the Marlin, but they are unpleasant to shoot, especially the 300 gr. they are hot loads. I would imagine that the Henry would be up to those loads.

As far as Ruger #1 loads I have never seen commercially available loads for the ruger #1 in 45-70. I load some myself! I use the barnes tsx 250 gr flying ashtray going 2500+ out of the ruger, I call it the watermelon smasher. It can send pieces of watermelon airborne for at least 15-20 second hang time. I use red fingernail polish to mark the primers so as not to fire in the marlin.

My most accurate load in the Marlin is the Elmer Keith load of 400gr speer over 53 gr of 3031. The marlin handles this load just fine but it does get your attention when firing. I have not chornied it but imagine it is in the 1800 area. knocks deer down to the ground quickly. I would think that the Henry would be up to this kind of load.

What has Henry suggested to follow for handloading?

[mrguvna]

I love my 45-70's but only own a Marlin and a Ruger #1 in that caliber. I would ask henry folks but I believe any factory ammo you can buy should be good to shoot out of the Henry. The Buffalo Barnes rounds are about the highest velocity you can purchase and they are good in the Marlin, but they are unpleasant to shoot, especially the 300 gr. they are hot loads. I would imagine that the Henry would be up to those loads.

As far as Ruger #1 loads I have never seen commercially available loads for the ruger #1 in 45-70. I load some myself! I use the barnes tsx 250 gr flying ashtray going 2500+ out of the ruger, I call it the watermelon smasher. It can send pieces of watermelon airborne for at least 15-20 second hang time. I use red fingernail polish to mark the primers so as not to fire in the marlin.

My most accurate load in the Marlin is the Elmer Keith load of 400gr speer over 53 gr of 3031. The marlin handles this load just fine but it does get your attention when firing. I have not chornied it but imagine it is in the 1800 area. knocks deer down to the ground quickly. I would think that the Henry would be up to this kind of load.

What has Henry suggested to follow for handloading?

[JEBar]

What has Henry suggested to follow for handloading?

for reasons centered on liability lawsuits (AKA lawyers), Henry recommends only using factory ammo that meets SAAMI Specs .... what they will say is their rifles are designed to the same specs as the "Newly Manufactured Marlin 1895" rifles .... Ruger #1 loads are specifically not recommended ..... I suspect that one can expect the same type of recoil in a Henry that you will find in a corresponding Marlin .... for our hunting loads I use Nosler's Loading Manual and follow their recommendation for 51.5 gr of IMR 4198 their 300 gr Ballistic Silvertips .... for a paper punching trapdoor load that is fun to shoot, I use the same bullet pushed by 31.1 gr of IMR 4198