Henry Rifle Forums

Well, today I returned to my addiction. My CZ 452 has been hibernating over the winter. I mostly shot handguns during the cold weather months. Spring seems to be here, though, so I decided to frustrate myself by trying to shoot small groups in paper.

No pics today, as 1. I was VERY rusty, and 2. I have resolved to shoot "real" 5 shot groups this year (I got a lot of flak last year for shooting 3 shot groups. Today, being a weekend, meant I was surrounded at the range by guys with AR's and AK's. Every time they shoot, it knocks me off my hold. I didn't have the patience today to try to do five shots with all that booming going on.

I have to say, though, that the addiction is back again in full force. I can't wait to get back there to try again.

BTW, I did get one decent three shot group today, but we're not counting those those year.

glad you were able to get back out .... the private range we go to is down for repairs .... the back stop is made from a stack of railroad crossties .... the ones in the center of the backstop have been shot through .... you can believe that it takes a bunch of bullets to blow a hole through the crosstie

Excellent! Sounds like you had fun. I hear ya, it was a long winter.

I'm glad you got to blow the cobwebs off your CZ452. They are one of the best affordable bolt action rifles ever made.

I have recently had both my CZ453 Premium and CZ455 Varmint out at the range, too. They are great fun to shoot and very, very accurate.

I look forward to seeing your 5 shot groups soon.

Should be back at it again on Thursday. I'm gonna have to start Soliciting donations to fund my upcoming ammo purchases.

I think I will have to knock off several layers of dust before I can get down to the surface rust. Then I may need a hammer and chisel to get through the deep rust.
I haven't taken a rifle out of the closet in so long I can't even remember what year it was. I am stuck with shooting at a 25 yard indoor range and the AR shooters can make that place miserable. I am holding off getting a really good target rifle until I can find a good 100 yard plus outdoor range.
Maybe I should break out the 10/22 and give her a work out soon. I do miss trying to make one hole groups at my max of 25 yards. I can't do that with a handgun.

ditto1958 wrote:Should be back at it again on Thursday. I'm gonna have to start Soliciting donations to fund my upcoming ammo purchases.

The little Psychiatry stand Lucy had in the Peanuts comics looked like a money maker. $.5 cents a session. Just a thought.

Ditto, I am sorry to hear you caught a lot of flak for shooting 3 shot groups. Wasn't around, then, but it does concern me. True, 5 shot and, even 10 shot groups are a better measure of a gun and shooter's potential and that's the way I shoot, but I hope the criticisms weren't too nasty. As always, I am a strong believer in doing what is right for you, not for doing it to please someone else. 3 shot groups are fine with me if you want to post them.

Okay, that said, we are also overdue to pull out one of our few remaining CZs and do a little range time with it. They are an outstanding gun for the money. Just been a little hard to squeeze in time for a bolt gun what with my endless fascination with lever guns and single shots and, of course, single action revolvers. Have a 453 V in 17 HMR that needs a little 100 yard work.

I enjoy reading everyone's report with the CZ rifles! I don't have any but I'm a big CZ handgun fan!

North Country Gal wrote:Ditto, I am sorry to hear you caught a lot of flak for shooting 3 shot groups. Wasn't around, then, but it does concern me. True, 5 shot and, even 10 shot groups are a better measure of a gun and shooter's potential and that's the way I shoot, but I hope the criticisms weren't too nasty. As always, I am a strong believer in doing what is right for you, not for doing it to please someone else. 3 shot groups are fine with me if you want to post them.

Okay, that said, we are also overdue to pull out one of our few remaining CZs and do a little range time with it. They are an outstanding gun for the money. Just been a little hard to squeeze in time for a bolt gun what with my endless fascination with lever guns and single shots and, of course, single action revolvers. Have a 453 V in 17 HMR that needs a little 100 yard work.

NCG, I like to think I'm pretty thick skinned. Plus, here at this forum, it's important to consider the sources before getting hurt feelings.

Just a little history, as I'm not sure when you joined up here. I got a 452 American last fall, and quickly discovered that I seemed to have gotten a very accurate one. Shooting at "stuff" at the range got boring pretty fast, so I decided to see what it would do on paper. I started collecting various brands of match ammo, and soon found out the rifle could do really well- even with me behind the trigger. It also became clear from the beginning that it "likes" better quality ammo (would be nice to find a cheap brand that would shoot really well, but no such luck).

At the range where I shoot, it's not really set up for any serious 25 or 50 yard rimfire benchrest shooting. Because of that, many of us who bring rimfire rifles tend to shoot them at the 100 yard berm, and mostly just for fun, and for some friendly informal competition.


Last year, mostly to save time, as well as money for ammo, I shot 3 shot groups. The reason I'm going to do 5 shot groups this year is for me, as I want to try to improve my shooting skills. Holding together five shots in a group is waaaay harder than doing it for three shots. If (and it's a big "if") I can get good at the five shot groups, I don't wanna hear anyone demanding 10 shots at 100!

I was shooting the new 1911 today. I was getting some good groups with it, but a couple times I thought about stopping at 5 rounds that looked like a single ragged hole at 7 yds. I was afraid another round or two would ruin the group. Some did.

The only thing I might scold you for is posting a group you said was a 25 yd group, when you actually shot it at 5 yds.

Hey, that's a great idea. I think I may run with that next time.

Glad you made it out to the range and had a good time.

Range rules.

1. Be safe.
2. Have a good time.

Anything else is gravy.

ditto1958 wrote:

North Country Gal wrote:Ditto, I am sorry to hear you caught a lot of flak for shooting 3 shot groups. Wasn't around, then, but it does concern me. True, 5 shot and, even 10 shot groups are a better measure of a gun and shooter's potential and that's the way I shoot, but I hope the criticisms weren't too nasty. As always, I am a strong believer in doing what is right for you, not for doing it to please someone else. 3 shot groups are fine with me if you want to post them.

Okay, that said, we are also overdue to pull out one of our few remaining CZs and do a little range time with it. They are an outstanding gun for the money. Just been a little hard to squeeze in time for a bolt gun what with my endless fascination with lever guns and single shots and, of course, single action revolvers. Have a 453 V in 17 HMR that needs a little 100 yard work.

NCG, I like to think I'm pretty thick skinned. Plus, here at this forum, it's important to consider the sources before getting hurt feelings.

Just a little history, as I'm not sure when you joined up here. I got a 452 American last fall, and quickly discovered that I seemed to have gotten a very accurate one. Shooting at "stuff" at the range got boring pretty fast, so I decided to see what it would do on paper. I started collecting various brands of match ammo, and soon found out the rifle could do really well- even with me behind the trigger. It also became clear from the beginning that it "likes" better quality ammo (would be nice to find a cheap brand that would shoot really well, but no such luck).

At the range where I shoot, it's not really set up for any serious 25 or 50 yard rimfire benchrest shooting. Because of that, many of us who bring rimfire rifles tend to shoot them at the 100 yard berm, and mostly just for fun, and for some friendly informal competition.


Last year, mostly to save time, as well as money for ammo, I shot 3 shot groups. The reason I'm going to do 5 shot groups this year is for me, as I want to try to improve my shooting skills. Holding together five shots in a group is waaaay harder than doing it for three shots. If (and it's a big "if") I can get good at the five shot groups, I don't wanna hear anyone demanding 10 shots at 100!

I shoot against myself and always want to do better so I push "myself" to shoot 10-shot groups.

Speaking strictly in terms of the rifle's performance and NOT the shooter's, I tailor the number of shots per group to what I am trying to to learn about a gun and how I expect to use it, then exercise a little common sense with the interpretation.

For instance, in a gun I might use for deer hunting or other large game, where I'm not likely to need more than one shot or two, I need to know where that all important first shot from a cold barrel will print. To test this, I think a three shot group is enough, assuming I make sure the barrel completely cools down between shots. In this case, a three shot group with a pet hunting load is a reliable indicator of how consistent the gun will be for that first shot in a hunting situation.

For other types of hunting, such as some types of varmint hunting or for typical range shooting, where many shots will be fired, I need to test the gun to see how the POI might change as the barrel heats up. Some guns I've shot showed little POI change as the barrel heated up, while others had a lot of POI drift. Have also had some guns that shot better with a warm barrel than a cold barrel. This is very useful information to have about a gun when it's being used this way, but I'll need to more than three shots in a group to get it. For a range gun where I will be expect to be shooting with a warm barrel (not a HOT barrel, by the way), I'll use a minimum of five shots, but even more is better.

This works for me because my shooting ability is a constant and is adequate to make a three shot group, when appropriate, a reliable test of the gun's performance. I am good enough to call my shots and therefore know the difference between a shot I pulled and a flier produced by the gun. As for gun accuracy reports I read or get from others, even reports where the gun was fired from a rest, I really don't find them very useful, simply because I have no way to compare that shooter's ability to my own. Entertaining? Yes, definitely. Useful? Not very.

Now, as a test of a shooter's skill, the more shots the better. You pretty much eliminate the luck factor with a ten shot group.

Ya see what I have to contend with around here, NCG? I make a commitment to shoot 5 shot groups, and Sir Henry jumps right in and says he does 10 shot groups. I'm like Rodney Dangerfield around here!

We'll still love you if you shoot 3 shot groups.

If I ever find where my bullets went, I'm sure they are in groups....

RanchRoper wrote:If I ever find where my bullets went, I'm sure they are in groups....

Oh, they are! Very tight ones.

ditto1958 wrote:Ya see what I have to contend with around here, NCG? I make a commitment to shoot 5 shot groups, and Sir Henry jumps right in and says he does 10 shot groups. I'm like Rodney Dangerfield around here!

I make up for low accuracy with high volume.