Copper Fouling

[JEBar]

as background info .... when it comes to hunting ammo, my teen years back in the '60's I've been a strong proponent of the "speed kills" line of thinking .... in addition, I firmly believed in practicing with the same ammo that you planned to hunt with .... consequently, no matter what caliber or firearm, I worked up loads based on the max recommended charge .... in all that time, I've fired untold tens of thousands of jacketed rounds and until recently, I've never had a firearm that developed any detectable copper fouling .... so, I've never had a need to purchase any copper removal products .... our 45-70 has become an exception .... earlier this year I notices copper streaks inside the barrel .... knowing very little about removal products, I spent some time on YouTube and in reading consumer evaluations of a variety of products .... bottom line, I bought a bottle of Sweets 7.62 Solvent ===> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001O ... UTF8&psc=1 <=== from Amazon .... its 5-star rating by 150+ individuals impressed me .... today I used it for the first time and the major lesson learned was, follow the instructions to the letter .... when it says to swab the barrel for 1 minute, 10 seconds won't do .. .. it should be noted that the fouling hadn't caused any detectable problems with accuracy or anything else .... so I don't anticipate any detectable improvement in accuracy after removing the copper .... while I haven't changed the brand of bullets (Nosler) we have used since the mid '60's, we have added calibers and Nosler has introduced new products .... I can't help but wonder what is causing the fouling in our 45-70, about all I can do is deal with it .... I can't say it works better or worse than any other brand but what I can say is, the Sweets 7.62 Solvent works .... it still remains to be seen how often it will need to be used on our 45-70

[ruhler]

I also use sweets 7,62, but I use kg12 aswell both works great. Dont forget to check if impact of the first shot/shots with clean barrel if its different, not saying it has changed but some rifles need a few shot to get back to point of aim.

[GFK]

Thanks for the feedback.

[JEBar]

I also use sweets 7,62, but I use kg12 aswell both works great. Dont forget to check if impact of the first shot/shots with clean barrel if its different, not saying it has changed but some rifles need a few shot to get back to point of aim.

I've heard that about a clean barrel but never have owned a firearm where it seemed to make any difference .... I must admit that I'm growing more and more perplexed as to the reason .... no copper fouling in either our Henry 44 Mag or 357 Mag even though both of them have has thousands of more rounds run through them .... with no experience in this, I can't help but wonder if it will be a lasting issue or if it will pass as the rifle barrel "matures"

[ruhler]

I also use sweets 7,62, but I use kg12 aswell both works great. Dont forget to check if impact of the first shot/shots with clean barrel if its different, not saying it has changed but some rifles need a few shot to get back to point of aim.

I've heard that about a clean barrel but never have owned a firearm where it seemed to make any difference .... I must admit that I'm growing more and more perplexed as to the reason .... no copper fouling in either our Henry 44 Mag or 357 Mag even though both of them have has thousands of more rounds run through them .... with no experience in this, I can't help but wonder if it will be a lasting issue or if it will pass as the rifle barrel "matures"

Probably a little rough barrel, dont know the amount of shots fired between cleaning but by the sound of it I suspect hundreds of rounds? Then I wouldnt worry about it dont think there is much you can do other than to clean more frequently maybe after each trip to the range for a while and see if you getting less fouling each time, maybe try other bullets or lower the fps with a different charge/powder. There is probably some tricks to use some polish method like benchrestshooters do but I dont know if it applies to normal barrels.

My new 44 Henry also has alot of copper fouling but maybe when shooting pistolbullets with higher fps than out of a pistol barrel it will leave more fouling, but when shooting hardcastbullet almost no leading at all.

[Rugerfanboy]

I must admit that I'm growing more and more perplexed as to the reason .... no copper fouling in either our Henry 44 Mag or 357 Mag even though both of them have has thousands of more rounds run through them .... with no experience in this, I can't help but wonder if it will be a lasting issue or if it will pass as the rifle barrel "matures"

JEBAR....The Henry 44 Mag rifle has a bore diameter of .431". The Nosler 240gr JHP (part# 44842) has a diameter of .429. Your not gonna get any copper fouling with this bullet. Even the Nosler 300gr JHP (part# 42069) has a diameter of .429". Same thing goes for the Henry 357 Mag rifle. It's bore is bigger than the Nosler bullet.

I'm like you...I practice with my hunting ammo. It's all hand loads that I've work up for my Henry BBS 44 Mag rifle. My rifle has a scope on it and I have it dialed in so that I know what the settings are at 50 yds, 100 yds, 150 yds and 200 yds. Even thou I have several hundred of these bullets loaded up for hunting and about a 1000 on stand by in there factory boxes. I do not plink with them. I use the Zero 240gr JSP .431" for plinking.

If you want to test my theory of bullet diameter cooper fouling your barrel on the Henry 44 Mag. Get you some Zero 240gr JSP bullets and load them up for your rifle and shoot them. They will cooper foul your barrel cause they are .431" in diameter. They won't do it really bad, but just enough to see the streaks in the bore. I know this cause I use them for plinking and there allot cheaper than the Nosler bullet for 44 Mag and 357 Mag.

Good thread....cause this reminds me, I'm getting low on Zero 240gr JSP, 125gr JHP and 158gr JHP bullets for 44 Mag and 357 Mag. I need to get ready and order some more before I run out.

[JEBar]

The Henry 44 Mag rifle has a bore diameter of .431". The Nosler 240gr JHP (part# 44842) has a diameter of .429. Your not gonna get any copper fouling with this bullet. Even the Nosler 300gr JHP (part# 42069) has a diameter of .429". Same thing goes for the Henry 357 Mag rifle. It's bore is bigger than the Nosler bullet.

your bullet diameter comment makes sense to me ( that may or may not be a good thing ) .... we use Rose Distribution Zero bullets with our 357 .... no issues with copper fouling .... I'm now transitioning to using Nosler's Ballistic Silvertips ===> https://www.nosler.com/ballistic-silvertip-bullet/ <=== which as can be seen have a coating that is supposed to help

[JEBar]

Probably a little rough barrel, dont know the amount of shots fired between cleaning but by the sound of it I suspect hundreds of rounds? Then I wouldnt worry about it dont think there is much you can do other than to clean more frequently maybe after each trip to the range for a while and see if you getting less fouling each time, maybe try other bullets or lower the fps with a different charge/powder. There is probably some tricks to use some polish method like benchrestshooters do but I dont know if it applies to normal barrels.

My new 44 Henry also has alot of copper fouling but maybe when shooting pistolbullets with higher fps than out of a pistol barrel it will leave more fouling, but when shooting hardcastbullet almost no leading at all.

suggestions appreciated .... we routinely clean the barrels in all of our firearms within a couple of days of firing them .... as is typical, the number of rounds we might fire does vary from 1 to several hundred but we clean them all .... what we haven't done is include copper remover in the cleaning .... we do fire pistol bullets in our 44 & 357 without any observable issues .... the fouling has come from rifle bullets fired in our 45-70

[Shakey Jake]

I got a full jar of Shooter's Choice Extra Strength copper remover. I run a patch or two with down the bore each cleaning after running some cleaner/conditioner through the bore.. I usually let the second application soak in for 10 to 20 minutes before running another clean patch. I follow that with some patches soaked with Rustproof.

[JEBar]

rainy, cool day in our neighborhood .. .. such days = time to catch up on firearms cleaning .... since their last cleaning our Henry 44 Mag has had a couple of hundred full power, 240 gr Nosler JHP's fired through it, our 45-70 50 +/- 300 gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertips, our 357 mag 150 +/- 158 gr Nosler JHP's and one of our Ruger 10/22's well over 200 Winchester copper coated 22LR's .... the last time I cleaned the Henry rifles, I found it took a while to deal with a copper buildup in our 45-70 .... I'm happy to say that this time I only found a little .... what was there may well have been missed at its last cleaning .... with both the 44 and 357 I couldn't see any sign of copper fouling but Sweets 7.62 Solvent soaked patches revealed light fouling .... it didn't take long to thoroughly clean both .... I continue to be impressed with Sweets Solvent .... as has become our custom, after cleaning with Sweets we followed up with Ballistol .... I can't help but wonder if the barrels are smoothing down a bit from all of the bullets that have passed through them

[GFK]

I can't help but wonder if the barrels are smoothing down a bit from all of the bullets that have passed through them

Thanks for the update. That is my understanding as well. I have only shot about 80 rounds through my 30-30 so far. Maybe in about another 80 or so, I will spend less time removing traces of copper from it.

[Rangerhgm]

So, does the copper fouling decrease with more rounds going thru the gun?

[JEBar]

So, does the copper fouling decrease with more rounds going thru the gun?

that is my hope but we won't know for a while .... my belief (can't prove it) is the smoother the barrel the less the buildup and over time, jacketed bullets should help smooth out the barrel

[GFK]

That is my belief and hope as well. Below are links to a process that I have followed for cleaning, and a concept about how a barrel should smooth as rough spots are filled. I hope that is the case. Because, I have spent about 3 x longer cleaning my Henry, than I have my Marlin. And for me, clean up time seems to factor in which rifle I will take to the range.

https://www.range365.com/dirty-little-s ... n-cleaning

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/fouling.htm

[JEBar]

from what I've observed, a lead buildup can affect accuracy .... for that reason, when I use lead bullets, I do whatever is necessary to remove any/all leftover lead deposits .... I haven't found that to be the case with copper fouling .... with it, my main reason for removing it is I simply don't like the look of it .... in my mind, that's a big difference .... one significant enough to me that I'm moving away from firing cast bullets .... there are several threads that promote the belief that one shouldn't mix firing lead and jacketed bullets from any firearm .... when you have 2 that's not a problem but when you only have 1 and want to fire both, doing so is reported to fostering a buildup .... all that's way above my pay grade .... time will tell if/how long it takes for the barrels to smooth out sufficiently to cut down on copper fouling .

[RanchRoper]

I shoot only lead and accuracy can certainly be affected by a dirty barrel.

[JEBar]

we have literally run tens of thousands (if not more) rounds through our Redhawk 44 Mag since its purchase approximately 30 years ago .... so far as I can remember, all have been our handloads, no factory rounds whatsoever .... since day one, our preferred hunting load has remained the same ===> 23.8 grains of W296 (same amount of H110 if we can't get W296), Large Pistol Magnum Primer, Nosler 240 grain JHP .... we mostly use CCI primers but as it has been with cassings, we haven't found the brand matters .... not too long ago we seriously gave loading lead bullets a try .... best guess, during that time loaded and fired 1,000 +/- of them .... bottom line, lead isn't for us so we've completely returned to our preferred hunting load which we also use exclusively in our Henry .... historically (regardless of the number or rounds) the barrel is cleaned after each firing but earlier today we used a copper remover (Sweets 7.62 Solvent) for the first time .... given the number of rounds, I was anticipating a much heavier buildup .... below can be seen the first and last patches .... I guess things can most certainly change quickly but copper buildup doesn't seem to be an issue .... for our level of shooting, the copper removed this morning had no noticeable impact on accuracy

[GFK]

I can agree. My Smith & Wesson and Marlin were similar. However, I have shot nowhere close to the amount of rounds you have. Even though, I have had my S&W 357 since 1991. That is why it was strange to me to see copper streaks in my new Henry, and again after I shot about 50 rounds. Hopefully, it will become a thing of the pass. But, I have only been shooting factory loads. Which, I hope will not make difference.

[JEBar]

aditional note :

while we clean the barrel on our Redhawk after every firing, we don't clean the inside cylinder walls on a regular basis .... I don't remember how long its been this time, best guess well over 500 rounds .... the picture below shows Ballistol soaked patches, each patch was run through all 6 cylinders .... the patch on the left was the first and the one on the right was the last .... after cleaning with Ballistol, I ran a patch soaked with Sweets copper solvent through all 6 cylinders .... it came out clean, no indication of copper .... that surprised me

[Slugnut]

Like you, JEBar, I grew up in the 60s' and shot the heck out of my Win. Mod.70 and Browning BAR (both 30-06) without thinking of copper fouling in the bore. We just used Hopes No.9 with a few patches/ bronze brush and you're ready to go. 3-4 years ago I started to use the Sweets 7.62, "Holy Molly" what a surprise. I had "Green" patches following their directions. Believe it or not, accuracy did improve for me. To this day my rifles/ pistols get this type of cleaning. It could be mental, but I seem to get better/ tighter groups scrubbing the bore. I would guess, back then my 30-06s' with all the copper build up, were actually .284 bore ! (LOL).