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Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:54 pm
by Headhog
Here's and interesting take on copper fouling in a bore. Watch it and decide what's right for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAQaxIlQukU
Paul
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:14 pm
by North Country Gal
Hey, I know that guy, personally, through lots of correspondence over the years. He's the real deal. He spent his career as a police armorer.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:45 pm
by BigAl52
I liked that. Thanks for posting Paul. I see a few more of his I will be watching
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:34 pm
by Headhog
North Country Gal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:14 pm
Hey, I know that guy, personally, through lots of correspondence over the years. He's the real deal. He spent his career as a police armorer.
I've been a fan of GunBlue for sometime now. I figure he has forgotten more than most folks know.
Paul
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:36 pm
by Ozarkwoodswalker
Hes a smart old man. I enjoy listening to him. Most likely he has forgotten more about guns than i will ever even learn.... a sharp old man he is!
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:42 pm
by fortyshooter
I just use the ol' Ballistol to remove the carbon if it needs it.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:42 pm
by GunnyGene
Many people spend way too much time on the bore and ignore all that gunk that accumulates in the receiver/slide, etc., and the gas system in some semi-auto's. The bore is the last thing I worry about.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:14 pm
by GFK
I agree Gunny; it is best that the whole firearm is clean. As for the bore, I typically run another cleaner down the bore (Hoppes No. 9), after using a copper cleaner, just to make sure that any active agent is minimized. Most times, I run a patch with oil down the bore, after any cleaning also. I am by no means a gunsmith. Is copper a big concern? Maybe not. To me, things work better and last longer, when they are clean. It is something that has been instilled in me, while being in the Navy.
When we pushed a button on a fire control system, we expected a torpedo, missile or projectile to leave the ship. And, we expected it to hit its target. In addition, it costed millions of dollars to build a ship. So, we tried to keep everything in working order for as long as possible, when may require cleaning and preservation. Being the case, a ship typically would be in service for 20-30 years. Even to this day, I try and keep all tools and equipment in good condition. Like a lot of things, take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:42 am
by GunnyGene
GFK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:14 pm
I agree Gunny; it is best that the whole firearm is clean. As for the bore, I typically run another cleaner down the bore (Hoppes No. 9), after using a copper cleaner, just to make sure that any active agent is minimized. Most times, I run a patch with oil down the bore, after any cleaning also. I am by no means a gunsmith. Is copper a big concern? Maybe not. To me, things work better and last longer, when they are clean. It is something that has been instilled in me, while being in the Navy.
When we pushed a button on a fire control system, we expected a torpedo, missile or projectile to leave the ship. And, we expected it to hit its target. In addition, it costed millions of dollars to build a ship. So, we tried to keep everything in working order for as long as possible, when may require cleaning and preservation. Being the case, a ship typically would be in service for 20-30 years. Even to this day, I try and keep all tools and equipment in good condition. Like a lot of things, take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you.
Speaking specifically to coppering, this has been the subject of much debate & metallurgical analysis that generally agrees with this authors opinion. That being that coppering will fill in what needs filling in until an equilibrium is attained in the bore. Equilibrium being that state of most consistent performance measured by muzzle velocity, pressure, and accuracy/precision, and is the desired plateau in ELR competition. That said, any performance plateau will gradually degrade over hundreds or thousands of rounds and require 'refreshing' (a cautious removal of
excess coppering).
For us mortals, it is a much less important aspect of shooting for fun and food. For me, worrying about coppering is akin to worrying about the spin of the earth for anything under 1000 yds. It's just not a variable I have any concern with.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:46 am
by GFK
Nothing is wrong with that. We each probably have our own pet peeves. As for copper in barrels, my Henry is the only one that does it to any degree for my to notice or have any concern. I suspect that the barrel is more rough than others. My plan is to keep shooting and cleaning. My hope is the barrel will get smoother in time. Is there any great impact, probably not. I just prefer not to have copper setting in a barrel for months. If all goes well, I rotate through shooting my firearms, at least once a year. This year, I was behind on the Henry a few months. Probably because, I bought another firearm. Nonetheless, I hope to shoot them all, at least once a year.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:49 am
by Sir Henry
GunnyGene wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:42 am
……worrying about the spin of the earth for anything under 1000 yds. It's just not a variable I have any concern with.
Hey this is a big problem for those of us shooting Standard Velocity.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:29 pm
by GunnyGene
Sir Henry wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:49 am
GunnyGene wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:42 am
……worrying about the spin of the earth for anything under 1000 yds. It's just not a variable I have any concern with.
Hey this is a big problem for those of us shooting Standard Velocity.
You obviously need a longer barrel.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:18 pm
by markiver54
That is some eye opening information. Thanks Paul.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:12 pm
by The Happy Kaboomer
I clean my rifle bores at the end of deer season. I foul it with a couple of shots to check zero and never clean the bores till deer season is over.......Unless they get wet.........Read what bench rest rifle shooters do.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 9:48 pm
by BigAl52
Leverguns are not benchrest guns. Benchrest shooters are so anal about stuff they make me sick. Just my .02 cents worth
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:20 pm
by GFK
Like a lot of things, the best approach is probably somewhere in the middle.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:21 am
by Mags
Read up on galvanic corrosion. Copper in contact with iron.
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:41 am
by Ozarkwoodswalker
Ha ha ha.... never an end to any debate. Im lucky as life is simple for me now.... im old enogh my guns will outlast me (with or without copper fouling) im shakey enough that with or without fouling, they probably shoot better than me anyway.... bullets are expensive enough that i will never shoot enough rounds through any one gun to wear another barrel out anyway.... so i can travel on out of the shooting world in the enjoyment phase of shooting.... just point, attempt to aim, pull the trigger, and see what happens ..... it is interesting to hear of the technical points of weaponary.....i dont have enoigh actual brain pan to debate stuff, and im too lazy to research a topic really deeply, but i do enjoy this site cause there is lots of interesting useful information discussed.... its sort of like attending a college class on an audit basis... just show up and listen to the presentation... and then no homework or tests... what a great deal!!!
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:52 am
by JEBar
while I have no doubt that with some barrels it can be an issue, I've never had a problem with copper buildup in any of our rifles or revolvers .... the only one we own that generates really high muzzle velocities is chambered for 300 Weatherby Magnum .... over time its fired untold hundreds of rounds and as of the last time I pulled the trigger, its accuracy is far better than mine .... while for me copper buildup is a nonissue, a lead buildup is a major concern .... so much so that I will not fire them from any rifle or revolver
Re: Copper Fouling - Fact or Fiction?
Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:47 am
by clovishound
I have a Savage that is chambered in .223. I started cleaning it with a bore snake instead of a brush. After a while accuracy started to suffer. I cleaned it with a brush, and started getting strips of copper out of the bore. It took quite a while to completely remove the copper. Afterwards, accuracy was back to snuff.
I have a Weatherby in 30.06 that builds up copper near the muzzle. It completely plates the end of the bore. I've never let it get too bad, so I can't say whether or not it will continue to build up, but the plating covers more and more area the more rounds I put through it before cleaning.
My take is that copper fouling is a problem in some barrels, perhaps not that many, but it does exist. I've experienced it.
I also take exception with his contention that copper pipes don't corrode through. I had to re-plumb the supply in my house because the copper pipes in the slab started corroding through and leaking. And yes, that was in multiple places.