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Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

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Redthies
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Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by Redthies » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:59 am

I would love to hear opinions on the best scope for hunting dawn/dusk times that would be suitable for a .30-30 carbine. All the scopes I can find that claim to be great in low light are around 4-12x 56. They are all around 14” long too. I’m looking for something that won’t be ridiculous on my .30-30. I love the size and range of my Sig 2-7x 32, but feel like there must be something out there in a similar size and magnification that will transmit more light. Bonus points for an illuminated retical or even just an illuminated dot in the center.
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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by Vaquero » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:13 am

My all time favorite is the Redfield Revolution 2x7x33, I have 2, they were made by Leupold, but are now discontinued.
I picked up a used 2x7x33 Leupold Rifleman, very similar to the above also discontinued.
I bought a Vortex Crossfire II in 2x7x32 for one of my 30-30's and I like it pretty good.
I have a couple of Vortex and like them as well as my Nikon's, which by the way have been discontinued. :(

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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by Redthies » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:48 am

Right… But which is best in light gathering ability? I’m trying to extend my hunting minutes as deer are all but nocturnal these days, and alas, thermal is not legal🤣
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SGC .22 LR Stripped and oiled up
BBSC .357 w Skinner Express & Patridge
BBSC .44 Magnum with Skinners
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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by Vaquero » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:59 am

The Redfield is, but like I said is discounted but they show up on flea bay from time to time.
I can pull the 30-30 with the Vortex out and try it out this evening and give you some feedback later.
These 3 are the only 2x7's I've used.

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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by John E Davies » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:51 am

Unfortunately the light gathering ability is directly tied to the size of the objective lens. I don’t think any 33 mm scope is going to do what you want. I have an old Leupold VX 2-7x33 (1” tube) which is a delightful scope on a lever gun, crisp and clear in daylight, but it doesn’t work well at dawn or dusk.

https://www.bushnell.com/through-the-l ... ptics.html


Have you considered using a set of tall Warne QD rings with a big scope? Pick a scope with a large diameter tube! That way you can remove the entire setup in a few seconds when you don’t actually need it. It holds zero very well if you have a quality picatinney rail on the rifle, and after you mark the location on the rail with a dot from a silver Sharpie... This is my BBX .44 Mag with low QD rings.


8EB0BD1E-FC93-4438-A0A2-AC9DD6367753.jpeg

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North Country Gal
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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by North Country Gal » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:55 am

A 2-7x33 is a 2-7x33 as far as basic image brightness. The only things that can I influence light transmission after that are lens coating and glass quality, but the best lens coating or glass still won't turn a 33mm scope into a 50mm scope or even a 40mm scope. There's no escaping the basic laws of optics. If you want to stay with a 33mm scope for size (and that's perfectly understandable), my advice is to invest in a high end 33mm scope and when image brightness is a problem, just turn down the magnification (image brightness goes up when magnification goes down).

The reason the the marketing pushes image brightness on those big 56mm scopes is the big 56mm objectives, BUT objective size is only part of the image brightness equation. You still have to factor in magnification.

Here's a simple trick to get you a basic idea of image brightness for any given combination of magnification and objective size. Divide objective size by magnification. This gives you what we call exit pupil size. Exit pupil is the actually width of the beam of light coming out of the scope. You can actually measure it. Hold your scope out at arms length and you will see this beam of light. Turn the magnification up and that beam of light gets smaller. Turn the magnification down and that beam of light gets larger.

The wider the beam light/exit pupil, the brighter the image, but with some limitations, namely how wide the pupil of your eye can open. The typical max for most people when they are young of age is 7 or 8mm. As we age, our pupils can no longer open as wide, so for someone my age, 4 or 5mm is max. The point is that if the scope is producing an exit pupil wider than you eye can take in, some of that light from the scope cannot be used.

Let's see how this works:

That 14x56mm scope at 14x has an exit pupil of 4mm. Your 2-7x33m set at 7x, actually has a larger exit pupil of 4.7mm, so your 2-7x33 is actually brighter at 7x than the big 14x56 is at 14x. The advantage of that big 56mm scope at 14x is that you can have 14x AND a reasonably bright image, too. If you could go 14x on your 33mm scope, you'd only have an exit pupil of 2.3mm, so that would be a fairly dark 14x in low light.

The other issue to remember is that your eyes in bright light typically only open to 2mm, so both the 2-7x33 and that big 14x56mm scope both deliver more light than your eye can use on a bright day.

Lastly, that objective size isn't just a matter of potential image brightness, it's also a part of image sharpness, but that's another story.
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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by North Country Gal » Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:08 am

One more note. Those lens coatings and glass are important issues for image brightness, too, potentially as much as 10% or more, depending on the scopes you are comparing. Still not enough, as I said, to turn a 33mm scope into a 40mm, but enough to notice a difference in low light. Today's scopes are very competitive in terms of the lens coatings used, though, as well as types of glass used. The biggest difference between a $200 and $400 scope will be mostly image sharpness, not so much image brightness.

The important thing to note as well is that the science of lens coatings and optical glass has increased dramatically in the last 20 years. This makes today's $200 dollar 2-7x33 a brighter and likely sharper scope than even the most expensive 2-7x33 20 years, ago. I love those old vintage Leupolds and vintage Weavers, as many of us do, but I know very well they can't compete with the new stuff in terms of performance.
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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by 220 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:14 pm

NCG has covered it all but better lens quality is the only thing that will improve brightness.
Provided the exit pupil is 7mm or so then it is only a small percentage gain you will get from a better lens.
Really it is all about balancing magnification with exit pupil size to get the best usable image you can.
7x is going to be dull under low light conditions 2x lacking magnification somewhere from 3-6x you will find the sweat spot where your eye is getting the maximum light it can use at the max magnification your scope can deliver it at.
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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by North Country Gal » Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:43 pm

Yes, HD, ED and other types of high definition glass produce images with more contrast and detail, so they they give the impression of being brighter. That contrast really makes detail pop out. Be careful, though, pretty hard to go back to less expensive glass once you've used such scopes.
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Re: Best 2-7x scope for low light situations?

Post by Redthies » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:50 pm

North Country Gal wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:08 am
One more note. Those lens coatings and glass are important issues for image brightness, too, potentially as much as 10% or more, depending on the scopes you are comparing. Still not enough, as I said, to turn a 33mm scope into a 40mm, but enough to notice a difference in low light. Today's scopes are very competitive in terms of the lens coatings used, though, as well as types of glass used. The biggest difference between a $200 and $400 scope will be mostly image sharpness, not so much image brightness.

The important thing to note as well is that the science of lens coatings and optical glass has increased dramatically in the last 20 years. This makes today's $200 dollar 2-7x33 a brighter and likely sharper scope than even the most expensive 2-7x33 20 years, ago. I love those old vintage Leupolds and vintage Weavers, as many of us do, but I know very well they can't compete with the new stuff in terms of performance.
This is more or less what I was looking for. I spent a large part of my life as a professional sports photographer (hence my love of Nikon scopes), so I know glass quality and coatings are a huge factor. My main question, which I may not have phrased properly is essentially this: does a $600-$800 2-7x beat the tar out of a $200 2-7x ? I have no issue with the sharpness of the Sig W3 scope I’m using now, but the brightness is something I would pay a bit more to upgrade…
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SGC .22 LR Stripped and oiled up
BBSC .357 w Skinner Express & Patridge
BBSC .44 Magnum with Skinners
Marlin 1895GS .45-70 w RPP Cloverleaf
Marlin 336BL .30-30 w Skinner LoPro 2 and Sig 2-7x
1912 Winchester 1894 .30 WCF

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