A thread I was reading earlier today got onto the subject about semi-buckhorn sights. A common theme I see over and over at not only this, but many other firearms forums is that many, many shooters dislike shooting guns with semi-buckhorn sights. I actually like shooting with them, as well as with aperture sights. Only one of my firearms currently wears a scope, while the rest have either semi-buckhorns or aperture sights.
Before we go further, a disclaimer: although I like shooting with iron sights, I'm not a scope or red-dot hater. I enjoy using optics like that on occasion, and I completely understand their popularity and how useful they can be. Still, I often find myself wanting to get involved when I see so many shooters who are frustrated my a rifle that is not really designed for mounting optics, or that looks aesthetically unpleasing with a modern scope or red dot riding on top of it. A possible analogy- let's say you're shopping for cars, and you see one that you just fall in love with the moment you set eyes on it. You ask to test drive it, you hop in, and... hmmm.... what's this third pedal down there? What are all those numbers on the shifter? It's a manual, and you don't know how to drive it.
So, let's get started. First off, a couple of myths we will dispel: 1. It's not possible to shoot accurately with semi-buckhorn sights. 2. My eyes aren't what they used to be. I can't see well enough any more to shoot with iron sights.
So, can you shoot accurately with open sights? You sure can. Many of us would possibly not even be here today if our ancestors had not been able to shoot with iron sights. They would have starved, and we would never have gotten to be born. Our fathers, grandfathers, and even some of us here learned to shoot with .22 rifles that were equipped with the most rudimentary of sights. Often not even semi-buckhorns, and definitely not peep sights, but just a bead or even a metal blade on the front, and a metal sight with a notch in it on the rear. With a little practice, it was possible to shoot squirrels and rabbits, even small birds, in the head with regularity from sometimes up to 75 or more yards away.
What about shooting at paper targets? I got scolded about this myself awhile back by a more experienced shooter than I am on another forum. She told me in not uncertain terms, that in fact it IS very possible to shoot groups on paper at a range using open sights. She even went on to explain how to do it. I'm not a group shooter, but since then, I've actually tried what she explained, and have in fact confirmed myself that she spoke the truth.
Are scopes normally a better way to shoot small groups on paper? Of course they are. But they are not the only way. Open sights work surprisingly well, too.
Spring has sprung. Get out and shoot your Henry
Shooting With Iron Sights
Shooting With Iron Sights
Last edited by ditto1958 on Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4 x
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
Part 2.
Part 2.
Second, let's talk about eyesight. I hear this so often that if I had a nickel for every time, I could retire in Florida. "I have to use scopes now that I'm getting older. My eyes just aren't good enough any more to look through open sights." When I hear that at the range, I always ask the person if they drove to the range. They always say yes, and I say: if you can see well enough to drive, you can shoot with iron sights. In fact, if you truly think you can't see well enough to shoot with iron sights, then you should not have a drivers license, you shoot not have a hunting license, and you shouldn't even be shooting at this range.
Let's talk about why so many people think their eyes are not good enough any more. Actually, our eyes do change as we age, but normally not in a way that makes us not be able to use sights properly. To understand what is going on, you need to understand depth of field. In photography, it's defined as: "the zone of acceptable sharpness within a photo that will appear in focus." Shallow depth of field means only a small range in front of us looks in focus. Shallow depth of field is what gives shooters frustration in trying to use open sights. Why? Well, if you get involved in photography at anything more than a snapshot level, one of the things you try to do is play with depth of field in photos. Professional portrait photographers do it all the time, and very successfully. Often, what they intentionally do is to have the subject of their portrait be in focus, while the background is blurred. Photographers work very hard to do this, and they spend lots of money on lenses that allow them to shoot with shallow depth of field, and even lots more ,money on lenses that make the blurry part be a really pretty blurry part, instead of an ugly blurry part (I'm serious- they call it "bokeh"). So, one of the first things you learn to do as an amateur photographer is to learn how to make your subject sharp and your background blurry.
There's only one problem with this. Most people like clear, sharp pictures. They don't appreciate what you've worked so hard at and are proud of. They may not say anything, but inside they are wondering why half of your picture is out of focus. If they see a photo next to it where everything is razor sharp, many people will like that picture better. This preference is constantly reinforced in modern life by the fact that we spend so much time looking at high resolution screens- HD tv, computer monitors, smartphones, tablets. They all have images on them that are actually sharper than what we see in real life.
Thus, one huge reason why people like scopes and red dots is that the first time they peer through that optic, they are wowed by that bright, sharp view. Everything from our eye all the way out to the target is razor sharp, bright, and crystal clear. That doesn't happen with open sights. At least not as often as it did when we were younger. The fact is, that when we shoot on a bright and sunny day, we probably do still see with lots of depth of field. Probably almost as much as when we were younger. But in lower light? Not so much. Our pupils have to open way up, and we then have shallow depth of field. We can focus on the rear sight, but then the front sight and the target are blurry. We can focus on the front sight, but then the rear sight and target are not in focus. If we look all the way out to the target, both sights are blurred. And we don't like that.
Part 2.
Second, let's talk about eyesight. I hear this so often that if I had a nickel for every time, I could retire in Florida. "I have to use scopes now that I'm getting older. My eyes just aren't good enough any more to look through open sights." When I hear that at the range, I always ask the person if they drove to the range. They always say yes, and I say: if you can see well enough to drive, you can shoot with iron sights. In fact, if you truly think you can't see well enough to shoot with iron sights, then you should not have a drivers license, you shoot not have a hunting license, and you shouldn't even be shooting at this range.
Let's talk about why so many people think their eyes are not good enough any more. Actually, our eyes do change as we age, but normally not in a way that makes us not be able to use sights properly. To understand what is going on, you need to understand depth of field. In photography, it's defined as: "the zone of acceptable sharpness within a photo that will appear in focus." Shallow depth of field means only a small range in front of us looks in focus. Shallow depth of field is what gives shooters frustration in trying to use open sights. Why? Well, if you get involved in photography at anything more than a snapshot level, one of the things you try to do is play with depth of field in photos. Professional portrait photographers do it all the time, and very successfully. Often, what they intentionally do is to have the subject of their portrait be in focus, while the background is blurred. Photographers work very hard to do this, and they spend lots of money on lenses that allow them to shoot with shallow depth of field, and even lots more ,money on lenses that make the blurry part be a really pretty blurry part, instead of an ugly blurry part (I'm serious- they call it "bokeh"). So, one of the first things you learn to do as an amateur photographer is to learn how to make your subject sharp and your background blurry.
There's only one problem with this. Most people like clear, sharp pictures. They don't appreciate what you've worked so hard at and are proud of. They may not say anything, but inside they are wondering why half of your picture is out of focus. If they see a photo next to it where everything is razor sharp, many people will like that picture better. This preference is constantly reinforced in modern life by the fact that we spend so much time looking at high resolution screens- HD tv, computer monitors, smartphones, tablets. They all have images on them that are actually sharper than what we see in real life.
Thus, one huge reason why people like scopes and red dots is that the first time they peer through that optic, they are wowed by that bright, sharp view. Everything from our eye all the way out to the target is razor sharp, bright, and crystal clear. That doesn't happen with open sights. At least not as often as it did when we were younger. The fact is, that when we shoot on a bright and sunny day, we probably do still see with lots of depth of field. Probably almost as much as when we were younger. But in lower light? Not so much. Our pupils have to open way up, and we then have shallow depth of field. We can focus on the rear sight, but then the front sight and the target are blurry. We can focus on the front sight, but then the rear sight and target are not in focus. If we look all the way out to the target, both sights are blurred. And we don't like that.
Last edited by ditto1958 on Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
4 x
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
Part 3.
We don't like it. And we experience it more than when we were younger, because our eyes are less flexible and need more light than they used to.
But that doesn't mean we can no longer shoot well. That's not true at all. If your eyes are good enough to keep your drivers license, if they're good enough to shoot with a scope, if they're good enough to go hunting, you can shoot extremely well with sights. All it takes is two things. Well, three maybe.
1. Practice. That should go without saying, but if you shoot regularly with iron sights, you will get a lot better at it. Yes, a lot.
2. Use the sights correctly. Here's the thing: the rear sight, front sight and target are not all supposed to be in focus at the same time. I'll repeat that, because it's the key to the whole thing: the rear sight, front sight and target are not all supposed to be in focus at the same time.
The correct way to do it is to focus on the front sight. The rear sight should then be out of focus. The target, will not be in perfect focus. Depending on it's distance and the lighting where you are shooting, this will vary. On a sunny day, the target may actually look acceptably in focus. On a cloudy day, not so much.
But again, it's supposed to be like that. Any shooter who can see well enough to drive can see his front sight clearly if he focuses on it. Focus on the front sight, line up a proper sight picture, and bang. If your sights were on the target when you squeezed the trigger, you hit your target.
3. Set your sights for a six o'clock hold. As you move out past 50 yards and start shooting at 75 and 100 yards, you will likely find that your front sight looks too big, and tends to cover large parts of the target you are shooting at. Yes, that's frustrating, but the solution is to set your elevation so that you can hold on the six and have your shots hit in the middle of the target.
I am far from a talented shooter. Still, with practice, I have improved greatly over time. A few weeks ago, I surprised myself at the range. I was shooting my 10/22 with the stock sights from a table. I had a couple of sandbags to rest it on, and I put a target on the 50 yard fence. I took my time and shot a three shot group. When the range went cold and I retrieved my target, I found that I had shot a group that was less than an inch.
Would I be able to do that consistently? No, I'm sure I could not. Would I be able to do better, and do better consistently with a scope? Of course I could. But what I can do without a scope is shoot "minute of squirrel head" at at least 50 yards. I'm in my 50's, am nearsighted and also wear bifocals.
Should everyone go back to shooting with "old fashioned" sights? No, of course not. No more than we should all ride horses, or even drive manual transmission cars, or use typewriters instead of computers. These are all things that are better, and we should use and enjoy them.
My point, though, is that none of us should be deprived of enjoying an "old fashioned" rifle because it doesn't have a scope or red dot on it. Shooting well with iron sights is within the ability of all of us.
We don't like it. And we experience it more than when we were younger, because our eyes are less flexible and need more light than they used to.
But that doesn't mean we can no longer shoot well. That's not true at all. If your eyes are good enough to keep your drivers license, if they're good enough to shoot with a scope, if they're good enough to go hunting, you can shoot extremely well with sights. All it takes is two things. Well, three maybe.
1. Practice. That should go without saying, but if you shoot regularly with iron sights, you will get a lot better at it. Yes, a lot.
2. Use the sights correctly. Here's the thing: the rear sight, front sight and target are not all supposed to be in focus at the same time. I'll repeat that, because it's the key to the whole thing: the rear sight, front sight and target are not all supposed to be in focus at the same time.
The correct way to do it is to focus on the front sight. The rear sight should then be out of focus. The target, will not be in perfect focus. Depending on it's distance and the lighting where you are shooting, this will vary. On a sunny day, the target may actually look acceptably in focus. On a cloudy day, not so much.
But again, it's supposed to be like that. Any shooter who can see well enough to drive can see his front sight clearly if he focuses on it. Focus on the front sight, line up a proper sight picture, and bang. If your sights were on the target when you squeezed the trigger, you hit your target.
3. Set your sights for a six o'clock hold. As you move out past 50 yards and start shooting at 75 and 100 yards, you will likely find that your front sight looks too big, and tends to cover large parts of the target you are shooting at. Yes, that's frustrating, but the solution is to set your elevation so that you can hold on the six and have your shots hit in the middle of the target.
I am far from a talented shooter. Still, with practice, I have improved greatly over time. A few weeks ago, I surprised myself at the range. I was shooting my 10/22 with the stock sights from a table. I had a couple of sandbags to rest it on, and I put a target on the 50 yard fence. I took my time and shot a three shot group. When the range went cold and I retrieved my target, I found that I had shot a group that was less than an inch.
Would I be able to do that consistently? No, I'm sure I could not. Would I be able to do better, and do better consistently with a scope? Of course I could. But what I can do without a scope is shoot "minute of squirrel head" at at least 50 yards. I'm in my 50's, am nearsighted and also wear bifocals.
Should everyone go back to shooting with "old fashioned" sights? No, of course not. No more than we should all ride horses, or even drive manual transmission cars, or use typewriters instead of computers. These are all things that are better, and we should use and enjoy them.
My point, though, is that none of us should be deprived of enjoying an "old fashioned" rifle because it doesn't have a scope or red dot on it. Shooting well with iron sights is within the ability of all of us.
Last edited by ditto1958 on Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
6 x
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
I struggle with my sights.
That means I need to practice more.
That means I need to practice more.
0 x
Deplorable California 2A supporter.
-
RetiredSeabee
- Administrator
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:04 pm
- Location: Harrisburg, North Carolina
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
Good read, I tend to keep my iron sights availabile on a rifle that I have a scope on. I do prefer a peep over a buckhorn. But I can make either work it just takes more concentration for open sights.
0 x
Load on Sunday and Shoot all Week.......okay it's a Mare's Leg I will reload on Wednesday. 
-
Josey Wales
- Tenderfoot
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:21 pm
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
Im an iron sight shooter and I actually prefer semi buck horns over all others, I just shoot them better.
0 x
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
Nicely written Ditto
I agree, iron sights CAN be shot accurately if you learn how and understand the proper sight picture. Just over a week ago I took my BB Steel 357 to the range to sight it on paper at 50 yds. At 50 yds that front sight completely covered my 10" shoot 'n see targets yet I put together nice enough groups to know I was shooting about 4" right. Drifted the sights and shot. Drifted 'em some more until I could carve out the bull at 50.
Shoots nice tight 2" groups at 50 with the open sights. Can't complain about that. Not to thrilled about the jenky sights having to be drifted off from center though. Looks a bit odd. That is the ONLY reason why I'm still considering mounting a scope on this gun.
I agree, iron sights CAN be shot accurately if you learn how and understand the proper sight picture. Just over a week ago I took my BB Steel 357 to the range to sight it on paper at 50 yds. At 50 yds that front sight completely covered my 10" shoot 'n see targets yet I put together nice enough groups to know I was shooting about 4" right. Drifted the sights and shot. Drifted 'em some more until I could carve out the bull at 50.
Shoots nice tight 2" groups at 50 with the open sights. Can't complain about that. Not to thrilled about the jenky sights having to be drifted off from center though. Looks a bit odd. That is the ONLY reason why I'm still considering mounting a scope on this gun.
0 x
-
Josey Wales
- Tenderfoot
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:21 pm
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
Owly wrote:Nicely written Ditto
I agree, iron sights CAN be shot accurately if you learn how and understand the proper sight picture. Just over a week ago I took my BB Steel 357 to the range to sight it on paper at 50 yds. At 50 yds that front sight completely covered my 10" shoot 'n see targets yet I put together nice enough groups to know I was shooting about 4" right. Drifted the sights and shot. Drifted 'em some more until I could carve out the bull at 50.
Shoots nice tight 2" groups at 50 with the open sights. Can't complain about that. Not to thrilled about the jenky sights having to be drifted off from center though. Looks a bit odd. That is the ONLY reason why I'm still considering mounting a scope on this gun.
Interesting. I put my BB steel 357 on paper last weekend and mine was about 3 to 4 " right of center at 25 yrds as well.
0 x
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
I've got a REALLY LONG STORY about my experiences with these 357 barrels that I don't care to re-hash here. Water under the bridge, as they say.Josey Wales wrote:
Interesting. I put my BB steel 357 on paper last weekend and mine was about 3 to 4 " right of center at 25 yrds as well.
If you are however interested in reading my near novel length ordeal, stop over on the Ruger forum and do a search for a thread titled "Not too thrilled with Henry".
Have a cup of coffee in hand. That thread merges to another thread... to another.
Actually, a cup won't do it. Better bring the whole pot.
4 x
-
Vaquero
- Ranch Boss
- Posts: 10425
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:56 am
- Location: Somewhere between Memphis & Nashville
Re: Shooting With Iron Sights
Nicey done ditto.
And yes I need to practice A LOT more with the irons.
Shooting my BBS 41 mag today, it was consistently hitting 4" left but in a nice 2 to 2 1/2 inch group.
Didn't have a small enough screwdriver to adjust it.
And yes I need to practice A LOT more with the irons.
Shooting my BBS 41 mag today, it was consistently hitting 4" left but in a nice 2 to 2 1/2 inch group.
Didn't have a small enough screwdriver to adjust it.
1 x
Monte Walsh "You have No idea how little I care". 
Ain't No Apologies for My Temperament
Si vis pacem, para bellum
H001, H006, H012
Ain't No Apologies for My Temperament
Si vis pacem, para bellum
H001, H006, H012