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New to optics, have questions

T56Impala
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New to optics, have questions

Post by T56Impala » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:17 pm

Okay, I’m not that new to them but I do have questions. Maybe it’s me, maybe I picked the wrong style of scope. This related to both my Big Boy X .45LC and my AW 45/70.

I got the rails from Henry. I mounted Monstrum 3x9x32 scopes on both. Don’t rag me about the scopes. Lots of articles listed them as under valued and very good for $100. I got TWO for $100. No, they aren’t the best money can buy but they seem to be built well and function. If you’re going to hate on me about them, then please refrain from replying. My son has a Leupold VX-Freedom 6-18x40 on his 10/22 and I have the same issue with it.

I’m cross eye dominant. I’ve overcome this with handguns. Lots, and lots of rounds down range to do it. However I have not been able to do it with a scope. Even then I still have these problems I’m about to explain.

The scopes can not be mounted far enough rearward for me to get a full sight picture. I have to move my head way forward. Thus I have no cheek weld. Add to that the off side dominance. The scope is far too low to get my left eye down there.

Im considering buying extended risers for all of them. (It only takes a few rounds to zero one so my son can take it off if he wishes.) They lift the scope an inch and extend rearward a good amount. Have any of you used these? The 10-22 and 45LC have bipods and limited recoil so I’m no too concerned with scoping myself. But Thumper is different. That 45/70 moves quite a bit when fired. It shouldn’t be an issue, but it’s something I’m thinking about.

Any other suggestions? My range is only 25 yards. Hunting I do not expect to shoot anything past 50 yards in all reality. (Hogs mostly) Hell, with new glasses I’m still not sure I could even see 100 yards! 🥸 Seriously, 50-75 yards would all I would ever feel comfortable shooting.

Let me know what you think.
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JEBar
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by JEBar » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:11 pm

T56Impala wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:17 pm
Don’t rag me about the scopes. Lots of articles listed them as under valued and very good for $100. I got TWO for $100. No, they aren’t the best money can buy but they seem to be built well and function. If you’re going to hate on me about them, then please refrain from replying.
happily, that type of response has never been the way we do business and it ain't gonna start here .. :D .. the equipment a person chooses is their business .... I've known a few folks with the cross eyed dominance am trying to remember how they handled it ....a few questions : have you considered shooting left handed .. :?: .. do you shoot with both eyes open .. :?: .. have you considered trying to find a scope that offers a longer eye relief .. :?: .. a comment: I'm sure you realize that a 45-70 requires a scope that can handle the impact of being repeatedly jarred by harsh recoil ....
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JEBar
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by JEBar » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:15 pm

additional comment : if you know the muzzle velocity of your rifles, you can calculate the trajectory .... right now I'm in the process of sighting in a 300 WBY Mag for a 300 yard zero .... if I adjust he scope to where it will be .2" high at 25 yards, it should be on at 300 ... its much easier to sight it in at close range than at longer ones
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GunnyGene
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by GunnyGene » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:36 pm

One thing you'll need to do with sighting in a scope is account for the height of the scope above the bore (center to center). This will usually be somewhere around 1.5" +/- . If you are sighting in at 25 yds, and your line of sight thru the scope is dead center on the bull, your bullet should be punching a group about 1.5" below the bull. So when you stretch that out to say 75yds, without any elevation adjustments your groups will be slightly lower (maybe 2" low), depending on the trajectory. So what you want to do is marry up poa and poi at the expected distance (75yds in this example). Don't try to match up poa and poi at 25yds, if you do the bullet will be hitting high at 75 yds.

Suggest you plug in some numbers on this ballistic pgm and do a little virtual experimenting. You can get the ballistic coefficient and bullet weight for the projectile from the ammo manufacturer's web site usually. Hornady lists these for a wide range of ammo. You'll also need muzzle velocity which you can get with a chronograph or just go with whatever is advertised for factory ammo.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

You said you had some familiarity with optics, so I won't dwell on parallax. At the price point of the scopes you have, they are probably a fixed parallax at 100yds or thereabouts, so that will throw a wrench into your sight picture at close ranges.
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by Yornoc3 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:20 pm

I've used extended rings, for a different reason (short tubed scope on a long action rifle); that's a way to get the scope farther back without raising it higher than necessary. With a 45-70, you want to maintain as much eye relief as the scope will allow, just in case. Weaver traditional extension rings, high, I think, was what I used, before switching out that scope entirely. The rails should provide plenty of options for locating the rings to work with the scope. I suspect if you can get the scope in the right place, at the right height, the eye dominance issue will be a lot easier to cope with.
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T56Impala
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by T56Impala » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:07 pm

Thanks for the replies folks. Lots to think about.

I do shoot with both eyes open. I have tried shooting left handed. Single hand, left handed with a hand gun, I’m a decent shot. Shooting a rifle or shotgun left handed just doesn’t work. I had open heart surgery back in ‘15. Recoil on my left side just isn’t something I can deal with not to mention I’m completely incompetent with my left side.

I bought this scope for my 45LC. I received 2 scopes. (Posted this in another post. Tried to return it, they refused to even admit they made a mistake) figured what the heck, same size gun generally, why not! I’m not married to it on the 45/70. I’d like to use it though. I figured the cross eye dominant issue would apply no matter what product I use.

Thanks for the respectful replies. Other forums I’m on can get pretty ugly at times.
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North Country Gal
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by North Country Gal » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:09 pm

That scope has a listed eye relief of 3.5-3.8". That's typical for a 3-9x scope, so I don't think changing to another brand or model is going to fix the not getting the scope close enough issue. Yes, I would try some extension mounts/rails.That's you best option if you want to stay with that scope.

As for the cross dominance issue, I'm in the same boat. I'm right handed and left eye dominant. For most of my life I got by shooting rifles right-handed by closing my left eye and just using my right, even though it is the weaker eye. Over the years I have trained myself to be able to keep both eyes open, now, but that takes a lot of practice. I think keeping that left eye closed is your best bet.

As for the 45-70, yes, getting that close to the scope is an issue with 45-70 recoil. For that rifle, I would try another scope. I tried typical 3-9s and was not comfortable, either, getting that close. For my 45-70 carbine, I settled Leupold 2.5x UL. It had a huge eye relief of close to 5". Very easy scope to use, but, of course, Leupolds are now crazy expensive.

One option that I have also used a lot is a red dot. You can mount a red dot as close or as far as you want on a rifle. Works the same, no matter where you mount it. That'll solve the mount issue. You can use a red dot with both eyes open easier than a scope, especially if you mount it but you can also just close one eye, too. You can mount red dots lower than most scopes because you don't have clearance issues with big lenses and/or eyepieces. Most importantly, for the ranges you describe, a red dot is right at home and will definitely be an easier to use optic than a scope.

Best of luck and let us know how things work out for you.
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T56Impala
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by T56Impala » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:22 pm

So I got my two risers today and mounted the scopes. Perfect height and, being the risers are see through, I can still use the front sight. I’ll have to experiment a little to figure out aim.

The rifles look odd with the risers and scopes mounted so far up and back, but if it works? I’ll be taking them to the range tomorrow. We’ll see how it actually works.

My next question, I have heard the term “scout scope”. I understand they can be mounted well forward and still give a full sight picture. Is this correct? Larger reticle or something? I really didn’t want to use a red dot, but after looking at some, and through some, mounted on an AR I might take a look.
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North Country Gal
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by North Country Gal » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:18 pm

Scout scopes have an eye relief (the distance from the eye that gives you full field of view) that is between that of a standard rifle scope and a handgun scope. Going scout means adding a scope out on the barrel on a rifle. This was a popular option on rifles like the original Winchester Model 94 that had top ejection, so mounting a scope over the receiver was not an option. To go scout, you do need a special mount and those are only available for a limited number of rifle models. No such a mount for a Henry or a 10/22.

I would have mentioned a scout scope, but the problem is similar to what you were having but in the opposite way, namely that if you get a scout scope too close to the eye, it blacks out and you won't see anything at all. It has to be used a certain minimum distance for the eye to see thing at all, usually starting around 9" from the eyepiece.
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Re: New to optics, have questions

Post by GeoBoy » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:37 pm

Amegamounts.com makes a scout scope mount for the 10/22.
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