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Which Steel ?

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daytime dave
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by daytime dave » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:15 pm

Right, I meant the finish dull. LOL.
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by JEBar » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:56 pm

UPDATE ONE YEAR LATER :

as can be seen in the picture below, the tarnished 5160 blade grows darker and darker .... the 420 blade in the smaller Buck retains it shine .... the 5160 still performs as one should expect from a Buck 110 .... all that being said, I simply can't get used to working with a 110 with such a tarnished blade .... guess I've simply carried and used 420's for too many decades .... I'm not getting any younger and the 5160 shows no signs of wearing out any time soon .... consequently, I have a replacement 110 with a 420 steel blade on order .... should be here next week .... unless something totally unexpected happens, it should be the last one I need buy .... no clue what I'll do with the 5160 but it will most likely end up in a tool box where it can serve as needed
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by Bugs » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:19 am

Looks like a well used knife with patina to me. As long as it will take a nice edge and open/close smoothly I'd have no problem using that one.
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by PT7 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:01 am

I really like "connecting the dots" when it comes to knives and their blade steel. Your follow up post again motivated me to look at what you have, what you are buying, in particularly in light of your usage for food prep. From some of the knife evaluations and guides on Blade Forums, I thought I'd "cut out" a couple of portions as relates to your knife, JEBar.

5160 Steel
This is plain carbon alloy steel (1060) that has been mixed with a little bit of chromium. There is not enough chromium to make it a stainless steel, but the chromium has been added to strengthen the material. This type of steel is known for its outstanding toughness. This type of steel typically has .56-.64% carbon.

The 10XX (1045, 1095) Steels
1095 is the most common 10XX steel (or "high carbon" steel) used for knife blades. Steel in the range 1045-1095 are used for knife blades, although 1050 is more commonly seen in swords. 1045 steel has less carbon (.45%), where 1095 has more (.95%), inversely 1095 has less manganese and 1045 has more. So in essence, 1095 steel would have more wear resistance, but would also be less tough. 1045 holds an okay edge, 1095 steel holds an edge great, and is easy to sharpen. The major drawback to this type of steel is that it rusts easily. Because of this issue, you will often see 1095 blades with some type of coating to combat rust. If you buy a knife with this type of blade, be sure to store it well and you should have no problem.

OK, this next evaluation info is per http://knifeinformer.com/discovering-the-best-knife-steel/
In the intro, I like the qualification statement that is made when attempting to provide comparisons and quality levels of different steels: "It’s not an exact science and this is simply my way of bucketing the steels into general performance categories based on a variety of factors." This is a quite good discussion on blade steels. Notice that S30V is fairly highly rated. I'd check it out.

Bottom line if I were to make a steel choice for food prep. Connecting the dots and learning that Buck uses this steel (as an option) in their knives, I'd go with the S30V steel. What I especially like is that it has high "corrosion resistance," which is an important factor in my book. The extra cost to me of this steel would be worth it.

CPM S30V (Knife Informer)
EDGE RETENTION: 7 CORROSION RESISTANCE: 7 EASE OF SHARPENING: 5 MARKET POPULARITY: 7
Made by US based Crucible, CPM S30V (often simply referred to as S30V) steel has excellent edge retention and resists rust effortlessly. It was designed in the US and is typically used for the high-end premium pocket knives and expensive kitchen cutlery. The introduction of vanadium carbides brings extreme hardness into the steel alloy matrix. Dollar for dollar, this is generally regarded as one of the finest knife blade steels with the optimal balance of edge retention, hardness and toughness.


Finally, back in July 2017 when this thread was first active, I appreciated Owly's comment.
The 420HC is a decent stainless steel, but does not have great edge retention. The upside is that it's very easy to sharpen.

5160 is a carbon steel and will rust. It will hold an edge better than 420HC, but there are better carbon steels available.

The best steel choice in the Buck line is S30v. It is a steel with great edge retention AND corrosion resistance. The only down side is that it can be quite difficult to sharpen.
A year ago I didn't know enough about S30V steel to agree or disagree with his assessment. Since then, I've come to learn he is spot-on. I have a Buck 119 fixed-blade made with 420HC steel, and use it mostly in the kitchen for food prep. If I need to replace it, or add another 119 to my kitchen tools, I will order one through Buck's Custom Shop made with S30V. A Buck 119 with this premium steel would be the ultimate kitchen tool for me!

Best with your new Buck, and hope you really enjoy it.
PT7
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by JEBar » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:49 am

Bugs wrote:Looks like a well used knife with patina to me. As long as it will take a nice edge and open/close smoothly I'd have no problem using that one.
couldn't agree more .... it has been well used, it does take a nice edge, it opens and closes smoothly .... I bought my first 110 the second year they were on the market .... all except this one have had 420 steel .... all have been outstanding .... all have been passed down to various grandkids .... I tried 5160 and it also performed well .... bottom line, my personal preference is for 420
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by JEBar » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:11 pm

PT7 wrote:A year ago I didn't know enough about S30V steel to agree or disagree with his assessment. Since then, I've come to learn he is spot-on. I have a Buck 119 fixed-blade made with 420HC steel, and use it mostly in the kitchen for food prep. If I need to replace it, or add another 119 to my kitchen tools, I will order one through Buck's Custom Shop made with S30V. A Buck 119 with this premium steel would be the ultimate kitchen tool for me!

thanks for the info, very interesting indeed .... I priced a 119 with a S30V blade from Buck's Custom Shop = $177 .... doubt I'll ever own one but that should really be a fine knife ... 8-)
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by PT7 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:22 pm

Forgot to mention one last thing. I'm most pleased with my 119 carrying the 420HC steel. It is very good material, and I use mine at the counter on cutting boards very often. Just like the option of the top-of-the-line, which Buck also offers. And like yourself, I doubt if I'll ever own a custom 119 made that way.....but sure fun to think about, and keep on the "dream" list. ;)
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by JEBar » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:43 pm

replacement 110 with 420 steel arrived today, top knife shown below .... very pleased with it .... the 110 in question is used exclusively for food .... on the cooking side, we will be hosting 20+ family members for lunch tomorrow so it will be put to use ... on the eating side, whenever I end up in a restaurant with dull knives, my 110 comes out of its sheath and steps right in .... :D
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by JEBar » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:54 am

PT7 wrote:From some of the knife evaluations and guides on Blade Forums, I thought I'd "cut out" a couple of portions as relates to your knife, JEBar.

Bottom line if I were to make a steel choice for food prep. Connecting the dots and learning that Buck uses this steel (as an option) in their knives, I'd go with the S30V steel. What I especially like is that it has high "corrosion resistance," which is an important factor in my book. The extra cost to me of this steel would be worth it.

A year ago I didn't know enough about S30V steel to agree or disagree with his assessment. Since then, I've come to learn he is spot-on. I have a Buck 119 fixed-blade made with 420HC steel, and use it mostly in the kitchen for food prep. If I need to replace it, or add another 119 to my kitchen tools, I will order one through Buck's Custom Shop made with S30V. A Buck 119 with this premium steel would be the ultimate kitchen tool for me!

PT7

S30V steel is new to me .... appreciate the work you did in providing good info .... I noted in Buck's literature that they say S30V can be difficult to sharpen and that they offer a sharpening service .... my guess is, the difficulty comes from it being a very hard steel ....

Questions :

1 .... any clue as to the type(s) of sharpeners required to maintain an edge on an S30V blade

2 .... at this link ===> https://www.buckknives.com/custom-knife ... fe/CKS119/ <=== they show options for S30V and other metal blades, with and without "Grooves" .... are the only there for looks ??? .... what, if any, practical function to Grooves provide ....
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Re: Which Steel ?

Post by JEBar » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:13 pm

UPDATE :

I just contacted Buck and asked about the grooves .... their response ===> "Its a blood groove. So when you are skinning an animal, the blade doesnt suction cup." .... when I mentioned that I've used a Buck 110 folding hunter since the second year they were in production and have never had that problem .... their response ===> "We've never had it reported with a 110" .... that leads me to believe they have had a sufficient number of complaints for them to offer it as an option
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