One more air rifle, the HW95L

[North Country Gal]

For sure, those Olympic class competition PCP air guns are very expensive, but as I've mentioned, these are ultra sophisticated, high tech guns. My now outdated Steyr LP 10 PCP pistol won more Gold medals in the Olympics than any other model in its class in its heyday. It has something like 10 adjustments you can do just on the trigger. We got it used at an estate auction for a retired competition shooter. Steyr won't even sell you one unless you are registered in 10 meter competition. The top air pistols in this class all run north of 2K.

[Sir Henry]

I’ve come to the conclusion I’m just not a springer type of person. Yes I’ll continue to shoot what I have however any new purchases will most likely be PCP. I’m never going to bring home the gold so having fun is way up there on my list. Something good enough to challenge me but not so good it’s way out of my league.

[BigAl52]

Why do you think you are not a springer person Gene

[fortyshooter]

I’ve come to the conclusion I’m just not a springer type of person. Yes I’ll continue to shoot what I have however any new purchases will most likely be PCP. I’m never going to bring home the gold so having fun is way up there on my list. Something good enough to challenge me but not so good it’s way out of my league.

The trick is to start out with the .177 non magnum models and then work your way up improving shooting technique and building up those arm and shoulder muscles as you go! Yes those Magnum models can be a beast!

[North Country Gal]

Gene, I won't gloss over the need to learn how to shoot piston guns, but the technique really is pretty simple. Not complicated at all. It's just a matter of practice. I like to think of it as being a rifle whisperer, not fighting the gun, just working with the recoil, letting the rifle recoil, but managing it as it does. A nice light touch is all you need. As forty says, just keep the power level down. That keeps the recoil down.

I certainly do understand the attraction of a quality PCP, though, given that I own one.

[markiver54]

Please forgive my ignorance. All I own is an old Sheridan Blue Streak. I just have to ask; is there really a recoil issue behind an air rifle?

[BigAl52]

Its not the recoil that you are thinking Mark. Its how one must hold a spring gun in order to get the best accuracy out of it when shooting it due to the recoil of the spring itself. Hope that makes sense. NCG probably has a better description.

[markiver54]

Its not the recoil that you are thinking Mark. Its how one must hold a spring gun in order to get the best accuracy out of it when shooting it due to the recoil of the spring itself. Hope that makes sense. NCG probably has a better description.

Thanks Bud...will wait to see what NCG has to add.

[Hatchdog]

Its not the recoil that you are thinking Mark. Its how one must hold a spring gun in order to get the best accuracy out of it when shooting it due to the recoil of the spring itself. Hope that makes sense. NCG probably has a better description.

So are you saying it’s the recoil of the spring and the effect it has on the rifle regarding accuracy?

[BigAl52]

Yes sir thats correct. Also some of the spring guns have a hefty spring in them and require you to be Hulk Hogan to shoot it a while. Mine is not that way I have no problems cocking mine.

[North Country Gal]

Mark, all guns have recoil. The force needed to propel a projectile out the barrel in one direction creates an equal opposing force in the other direction. That opposing force produces recoil. Even BB guns have recoil, but with low powered guns like BB guns and pneumatic air guns, we don't feel the recoil because the opposing force is absorbed by the mass of the gun, which is much greater than the mass of the projectile, even in a BB gun.

Pneumatic air guns like your Sheridan do have recoil, then, but you'll mostly see it as muzzle jump, rather than a push back against your shoulder. We tend to ignore recoil in pump ups, PCPs and single stroke pneumatics because it is so mild, but it's still there. It's technically incorrect, then, to say a PCP does not have recoil, but compared to the recoil of piston guns it's so mild as to be not a factor in our shooting, so we sometimes get a little sloppy with our terms.

In fact, even that little bit of muzzle jump caused by recoil in high end competition PCP pistols like my Steyr, above, is enough to affect scores in this very exacting completion, so these high end competition PCP target guns use barrel vents to to keep the muzzle jump down.

And then there are piston guns. Why do these have so much recoil compared to pneumatics?

In a pneumatic, the air has already been pre-compressed before you trip the trigger, either by pumping or pre-charging. With your Sheridan, you've already done the work needed to compress the air with however many pumps you used to charge the gun. With your Sheridan, the only part that moves when you pull the trigger is a small valve part that opens to dump the compressed air. Same with a PCP. Only the air pushing that light pellet out of the barrel is producing recoil.

With a piston gun, air has yet to be compressed when you pull the trigger. This is the key to understanding why piston guns produce recoil. That pellet is sitting in the chamber with no compressed air in the gun. When you pull the trigger, a piston under compression from a powerful spring or air cylinder slams a piston forward at high speed to compress the air in the cylinder and deliver it to the pellet. Only then does the pellet move down the barrel. This has two consequences for the shooter of a piston gun.

The first is the recoil produced by the release of that powerful spring or air cylinder on a piston that then has to move forward at high speed to compress the air. The spring and piston moving forward cause an equal reaction to the rear and causes the gun to recoil to the rear. This part of the recoil in a piston gun is actually pretty mild and is mostly absorbed by the mass of the gun.

The second part of the recoil is much more pronounced. The spring and piston moving forward at very high speed slams to a stop. The air compressed ahead of it sends the pellet down the barrel. That forward momentum of the fast moving spring and piston slamming to a stop is then transferred to the gun and the gun moves forward, producing that unique forward recoil you only get get with a piston gun. The stronger that spring and the more massive the piston, the more pronounced forward recoil. This is the recoil that can eat up a scope not rated for piston gun use in a hurry, because typical scopes are designed only to handle rearward recoil.

There is another factor with piston guns that doesn't get much discussion, because it is much less noticeable compared to the recoil, but it does make a piston gun a bit more challenging to shoot. This factor is lock time, that being the time it takes for the pellet to leave the barrel. In a piston gun, you have to wait until the air is compressed by the forward moving piston before the pellet even begins to move down the barrel. Not so with a PCP. The air is already compressed when you pull the trigger. A PCP rifle that has a muzzle velocity of 900 fps, then, has the pellet out the barrel significantly faster than a piston rifle that sends the same pellet out the barrel at 900 fps. The difference is only in milliseconds, but as competition shooters know (even in the cartridge gun world), a faster lock time makes follow though less critical.

The bottom line with learning how to shoot a piston gun is learning how to handle the recoil so it doesn't destroy accuracy AND developing top notch follow through to handle the slower lock time. It can be done, of course, but it does put the shooter at a disadvantage when competing against a PCP gun of equal quality. This is why PCPs guns own all competitive air gun shooting competition. In sports like Field Target that even allow piston guns, piston guns have their own category so they don't compete directly with PCP guns.

For shooters new to air guns, no special skills are needed to shoot pneumatic air guns, other than developing good follow through for the lower fps of air guns. Piston guns offer a lot of advantages - my favorites - but it comes at the cost of learning the techniques to shoot them, well.

Whew! HopeI didn't put too many of you to sleep.

[BigAl52]

See I told you she would explain it better than me.

[Sir Henry]

Thanks Joanie for the great comments. It made me think of what is really important in making a choice. The forward recoil just doesn’t feel right in my hand. If it was the only choice I’m sure I would adjust. And I already have two handguns and one rifle springer. I really don’t need another.

The likes of these two rifles are what I have my sights on now. They are not black and evil looking though the one is a semi-auto. That one I want in 22 and the single-shot in 17.
https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benjamin ... e_Kit/5266

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benjamin ... Rifle/4316

Both are in stock and ready to ship.

[markiver54]

Cannot thank you enough Joanie for taking the time to share your expert knowledge to someone like myself. I had no clue.
This thread will be downloaded. It is a great reference!!
Although I will read it again, probably several times....it did not put ME to sleep. It woke me up!!
We are very lucky to have you here.

[North Country Gal]

You are very welcome, guys. Glad to help.

Gene, the marauder (M-rod, as it is popularly called) is a great choice for a PCP. I have no experience with the new breed of semi-autos, but just remember, the faster you empty the gun, the sooner you have to refill.

I do highly recommend the Lothar Walther barrel option that Pyramid is offering. Crosman barrels can be all over the map as to QC and accuracy. I have the LW barrel on my recently acquired Crosman 2300 S CO2 pistol. Big part of why I sent the bucks on this particular model and have no regrets. Some other versions in this series have Crosman barrels.

[Sir Henry]

You are very welcome, guys. Glad to help.

Gene, the marauder (M-rod, as it is popularly called) is a great choice for a PCP. I have no experience with the new breed of semi-autos, but just remember, the faster you empty the gun, the sooner you have to refill.

I do highly recommend the Lothar Walther barrel option that Pyramid is offering. Crosman barrels can be all over the map as to QC and accuracy. I have the LW barrel on my recently acquired Crosman 2300 S CO2 pistol. Big part of why I sent the bucks on this particular model and have no regrets. Some other versions in this series have Crosman barrels.

Hi Joanie I’m not seeing the Walter barrels? Are they sold separate or together? Thanks.

[North Country Gal]

Gene, the LW barrel option is showing in the second link you provided for the standard single shot version. it's up at the top just to the right go the gun pic in the Pick Your Option list where you check the caliber you want. The price is shown just to the right of the Pick Your Option list.

PICK YOUR OPTION
.177" (4.5mm)Crosman Barrel
Caliber: .177" (4.5mm), Stock: Hardwood, Handle: Ambi, Upgrades: Crosman Barrel
.177" (4.5mm)Lothar Walther Match Barrel
.22" (5.5mm)Crosman Barrel
.22" (5.5mm)Lothar Walther Match Barrel

I don't know if this is a Pyramid special edition or if it's from Crosman (Crosman owns Benjamin and runs a Custom Shop).I do know that Crosman puts LW barrels on all their competition models like my 2300S CO2 or their Challenger 10 meter PCP. In fact, all high end brands use LW barrels until you get to the ultra expensive brands like FWB and so on. Those folks make their own barrels. LW barrels, though, are the standard of excellence in the air gun world.

[North Country Gal]

Since we're on the subject of air gun barrels, you need to understand that they are NOT the same as barrels even on your 22 rifles. Air gun barrels are softer as a rule, so you must NOT use aggressive cleaning techniques or metal brushes for cleaning such as brass or aluminum bristle brushes. If you must use a brush, it should be one with nylon bristles. And this is for steel barrels. Classic pump up barrels on Benjamins and Sheridans are brass. The only thing you should use on these is a swab or maybe a cleaning pellet. Be extremely careful about running a cleaning rod down one of these brass barrels. Generally a bad idea.

If you use a cleaning rod, it should be polymer coated or, better yet, use a bore snake.

Be very careful about cleaning barrels with a shroud, sleeve or moderator. In many cases, the actual barrel, itself, is shorter and nestled inside. Very easy to get a cleaning rod or brush stuck and/or do damage to the shroud or moderator.

The only time I clean an airgun barrel is 1) on a new gun to remove any any grease left over from the factory or 2) when accuracy falls off and I've gone to great lengths to eliminate every other possibility. In effect, most of my air guns very rarely get a bore clean after the first initial clean.

And you shouldn't have to regularly clean a properly made air gun barrel after that initial cleaning, assuming the barrel has no defects/has not been damaged and assuming you are using pellets that are fresh and still lubed. Old pellets that have become oxidized are probably best left in the tins. (Save those tins of old discontinued pellets, anyway. A lot of them are becoming quite collectible.)

Remember, air gun barrels are like any other barrel. The pores in the metal need to be filled (seasoned) for the barrel to shoot at its best. Getting OCD and cleaning an air gun barrel too much never lets it shoot at its best and definitely increases the odds of doing damage.

One more tip and this is on handling pellets. You should wash your hands after a shooting session with air guns. Pellets are lubed, so the actual chances of getting lead debris on your gingers after handling pellets is rather small. What you will be washing off is the lubricant in most cases. Why take a chance, though? Just wash your hands. (Not a bad habit to acquire, anyway, what with the pandemic.)

[Sir Henry]

Thanks I found the option. The standard barrel is available but the LW is out of stock. Now I’m forced to wait again.

Thanks also for the cleaning information. I’ve only can the cleaning pellets through mine.

[North Country Gal]

I feel your pain, but at least with domestic made guns, you don't have to wait for guns to be imported. Hopefully, Crosman can catch up with the demand. My main shooters are high end springers. There's a smaller, but steady demand for that type of air gun. I haven't had too many problems finding what I want. PCPs and other types of pneumatics, though, are really where most of the air gun sales are.